Cooling system ultimate mod?

VisPacem · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: Cooling system ultimate mod?

I have been, I guess like most everyone else here, fighting the air bubbles, bleed the system headache since I owned my 2nd Vanagon. The first one was air cooled Laughing

Then I got to thinking, why not just add a "conventional" piece of equipment.
Example: on the wife's diesel ( Embarassed

) the radiator is "sealed" meaning no cap no access. Just a hose going to a tank with a pressure cap. No problem ever.
I did mod the Austin that had an "open" system, that is a 15lbs pressure cap on the radiator and when overheating occurred (a story of the past since my mod) coolant out in nature it went, the loss of coolant naturally resulting in more overheating Crying or Very sad

So, I installed a flat cap on the radiator, used the overflow hose to connect to an overflow tank with a pressurized cap (15lbs). So then, now whenever the coolant expands it goes into said overflow tank and eventually returns to the radiator.

My question being why not add a pressurized tank to the front of the Vanagon perhaps using the bleed valve with a hose to a tank with a pressure cap and voila?
I just came up with this idea for the Vanagon at 21:45hrs, so in case pictures are needed to clarify, I'll wait until daylight.

Any opinion for or against?
_________________
LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper

No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons)

paddyh · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:18 pm Post subject:

what is this "radiator" device you speak of?
_________________
81 A/C Westy
02 Impreza Wgn

hdenter · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject:

Well, this sort of system is already there. It's just in the rear. Adding a secondary tank up front won't solve the bleeding issue. Unless you have a hole or leak up front, that is not where the air is comming from. The top of the rad is just where the air collects since it is the highest point. What I could get behind is either an easier to reach/operate bleed valve that doesn't require removing the grill and/or a sight tube from the top of the rad to the bottom so that you could tell if there was air trapped in the rad. Either way, any expantion/contraction of the coolant should be handled by the rear coolant tank and the overflow tank. If you keep getting air into the system, look to see if the coolant cap is working properly and make sure that the hose from the coolant tank to the overflow tank is in good shape and doesn't have any holes. If that doesn't solve the problem, do a pressure test to see if you have any holes. Even with a "libby bong" it takes a lot of work to get every bit of air out of the system on my 1.9.

Hans
_________________
'79 triple white convertible bug
'84 sunroof vanagon
'85 weekender

randywebb · Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject:

VisPacem · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:49 am Post subject:

vanis13 · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:52 am Post subject:

I'm liking this idea.

I'm thinking that a tube from the top radiator bleeder to a pressure tank/rad cap/exp tank would over time bleed out the air that gets trapped at the top of the radiator.

possibly the easiest way to try this with an extra vanagon tank(s) assembly just attaching the tube to the bleeder location. For those of us w/ round headlights there is (maybe enough) space next to the radiator.

so tell me why this would not work!

some thoughts -

depending on the pressure ratings on the front vs. rear caps, only the one that opens at lower pressure would work. but would the rear one even be needed?

how about putting a radiator cap fitting (that has exp tank fitting) in the upper radiator hose? there must be a reason every other car has the radiator cap at the top hose connection to the radiator.
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace

www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make

vanis13 · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:56 am Post subject:

MsTaboo · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:14 am Post subject:

camerahunter · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:30 am Post subject:

It might work but if you are having air problems there is something wrong with the system.
A properly working system requires nearly zero attention and no air bubbles whatsoever.

Thank you,

David
_________________
1984 - Daily driver

morymob · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:14 am Post subject:

I agree, but in the 18 yrs and 5 WBXs, all with correctly operating cooling sys, my greatest problem solver is i run without a pressure system. Never know it was that way if i didn't tell.Gets rid of all those pesky drips, seeps and burst parts, my 1/2 cts.

paddyh · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:37 am Post subject:

BlackDogVan · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:54 am Post subject:

One word. Libbybong. Do it once, do it the best it can be done & if your problems persist you have another issue to figure out.
_________________
Gone but not forgotten - 1991 Carat - AAZ transmogriffied to mTDi.
Still addicted, looking for Doka...

GrindGarage · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:57 am Post subject:

Normally air in coolant = headgasket. These are closed systems once bleed no more air.
_________________
-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

vanis13 · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:05 am Post subject:

vanis13 · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:08 am Post subject:

tangent questions -

would the whole filling/bleeding process be easier if we were able to fill at the highest point in the system - the top of the radiator?

what would the problem(s) be with moving/attaching the OEM tanks to the bleeder screw location?
_________________
83.5 Westy with Subaru 2.5, 4 spd manual, center seat, COLD A/C on 134a!, Winter camp heated with an Espar B4 gasoline furnace

www.SuperVanagon.com - some stuff I make

danfromsyr · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:18 am Post subject:

while this statement is TRUE for a vanagon system working in perfect near new order.
it is NOT TRUE for many many being driven today.
any leak, any air migration would cause an unbalance to this style of "Draw back" system.
a leaky rear core, coolant goes out, air sucks back in.. and license plate coolant bottle remains the same level.
a seepign head gasket, or even one of the ~20 hose clamps will return a similiar effect..

think of it as a straw with a pin hole in it.. sucking in air.. and no where togo.. well sorta..

Mike Robinson · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:31 am Post subject:

I think having something like this would make bleeding easier and add a visual check

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Parts_Cooling_LSI-tee.html

Lots of very cool coolant products. Excellent quality.

Mike
'82 Westy Diesel 1.9TD

GrindGarage · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:34 am Post subject:

mike nice setup. check terry's classifieds next week. Will be available for $89.95.
_________________
-cliff

91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com

Williamtaylor33 · Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:46 am Post subject:

bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

Mine is stock system, filled with the libby van bong and no problems since.

if you got a probelm try a pressure test on the system, it may have a leak.


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