Bugpack Dry Sump - Scavenge Port?

[risk]

I have a bugpack dry sump setup. the pump uses the factory pickup on the case for the oil inlet, but it comes with a plug for the extra scavenge port..

can i use this port to scavenge off my heads and turbo? I'm thinking i could use a manifold or a 3 into one fitting to accomplish this.

Anyone running this pump setup?

[yamaducci]

Yes,
I have this pump for my current build but have not done the full installation yet. I am also considering two heads and turbo into one.
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-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697

3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested.

[risk]

Peterson makes some nice manifolds, then you don't have to have two tees.

[Steve Arndt]

Does your pump look like mine?

I think if you route that plugged port to the valve cover you may have problems. If the scavenge line to the head sucks air, then no oil will be scavenged from case pickup.

[risk]

Yes that is the pump.. I called bugpack and thier tech guy had no clue. I asked who designed the pump and if i could speak with him. He said "Dean Lowry, and he's no longer with us" ...nice.

[bdkw1]

[risk]

So that plugged port is meant to be used with an aftermarket case that has no stock pickup? I have an ARPM case that has the stock style pickup cast in, but i also have an autocraft pickup that bolts to the bottom of the case. Should i use both of these? Or just the one cast into the case, leaving the other port plugged?

I guess my only options are to get a pump with an additional scavenge stage, or just drain my heads and turbo into the case sump..

[Stripped66]

[risk]

yeah it has a mesh screen built in.. shpuld i
plug the pump or the case?

[Stripped66]

I'd plug the pump; that way, there would be absolutely no leakage between the pump body and the case.
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[risk]

one more question.. i understand that trying to scavenge off the heads and case with the same stage can cause problems due to air possibly being sucked in, but what about the turbo? seems like there is no way you would ever get any air since the turbo only sees pressurized oil..

[yamaducci]

I haven't thought about it till now but what if you used a small external sump box (puke tank) and had the heads and turbo drain into it while scavenging under the tank. As long as one of the three was putting oil in the tank it would be less likely for the pump to suck air.
It may not be worth it since the oil can just return to the normal sump but if you are trying to keep as much oil out of the case then this may be an option. (just thinking out loud)
_________________
-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697

3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested.

[bdkw1]

[yamaducci]

[Stripped66]

Oh man...I've been waiting for a thread to go full-Samba
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[RockCrusher]

[TomSimon]

I have a 2 stage CB, a 2 stage Autocraft, and a 4 stage Autocraft, and a stage and a half Autocraft. I am not familiar with the Bugpack dry sump pump, but from what I see and what you describe, it looks to be a 3 stage dry sump pump, with one stage not in operation. you should take yours apart to be sure what you have. They all operate on the same principle.

In general, there are dry sump, wet sump, and hyrids of the two. They can seem complicated unless you get the explanation, which I will give a try, below.

Dry Sump explained: Think of dry sump oil pumps as 2,3, or more separate gear driven pumps, all running on a common shaft. A dry sump system has a tank, that acts as a reservoir and place to get the bubbles out of the scavenged oil. The cool thing is this tank can hold gallons of oil (if you want) so the engine never runs out of cool, clean oil free of bubbles, away from the spinning crank.

Dry sump system, more details: How you choose to use those stages is really up to you, but there are several tried and true ways to plumb these. You must have at least 2 stages for a true dry sump system, with tank. The tank needs a breather. It needs one stage to act as the pressure stage, just like stock VW. The difference is this pressure stage draws oil from the bottom of the tank, where the oil is settled of bubbles and never is short supply. The other stages are just scavenger (suction) stages that collect up the oil and return it to the top of the oil tank. More stages are used to scavenge from more locations, the heads being one of them. An Autocraft pro series dry sump case for instance, often is plumbed with a 4 stage pump, drawing from two separate scavenge location in the sump area, and usually one from the heads. The stage for the heads, has a tee on the inlet side, with a line coming from each head. It sucks air some of the time, but the oil tank doesn't mind. The breather allows that air a place to go.

A wet sump system is similar, but only one stage where the crank case and deep sump ARE the reservoir.

A hybrid stage-and-a-half system has 2 stages, really. But for rules reasons, does not use an oil tank, because that would be a dry sump system, specifically not allowed in PRA Super Street. For that reason, Autocraft came up with this pretty cool 1-1/2 stage ssytem. The larger stage works just like a VW wet sump system, except the Autocraft unit uses an external pickup that draws oil from only the sump plate area via a special plate and -10 hose. Into the pump, out of the pump, into filter, then into the main oil galley. The smaller stage (half stage, 15mm gears I think) is used to draw oil through a tee, one line from each head, and return that scavenged oil to the sump, where it can do the most good, keeping the oil pickup covered.

[risk]

The bugpack is a two stage, the pump body that fits inside the case looks like a stock pump, has a hole for the pickup but no hole for the pressure side. The gears on this stage protrude out of that pump body into the first stage. So i'm guessing that the extra port is for an aftermarket case with no stock pickup provisions? The next stage is the pressure stage.

I read that some of the ARPM cases had drainback issues from the heads, so when i built this motor i deburred and smoothed in between all the lifter bore bosses. If it ends up being an issue i will just have to go to a three stage pump.

So here's my plan:

Plug the pump "stock location" pickup hole
Scavenge off the Autocraft sump pickup
Drain the turbo back to the tapped hole on the side of the sump

[risk]

Here are some pics of the pump..

[Stripped66]

Yep; 2-stage. The inner, scavenge-stage is very large (having 2 sets of gears stacked on the shaft within the same pump body).
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