Eurovan Engine failed! Oil light was on - any advice?

[bbm2u]

Hi.
About my 2002 Eurovan (whom my kids named "Troff" after a story character)...

My mechanic whom I trust (but whose shop specializes in Volvos) just called to say my engine is totally "locked up" or "seized up" as bad as he'd ever seen an engine be locked up -- he said he could not even turn the engine or make it move. He confirmed that the oil level was full -- in fact, he said, oil was overflowing. He wondered about a possible oil pump failure. To replace the engine will cost $11,000 new or $6700 used! Very bad news. We are borrowing a car for now but we will need wheels fairly soon. And we really like Troff.

Although I am nearly clueless about engines, I hope to tell the story in case anyone has advice that could help me understand what happened and what to do next. (Apologies if the story is overly detailed -- but I didn't want to leave out a detail which might supply a clue.)

A couple years ago, I had bought Troff used for about $20,000. Now Troff has about 110,000 miles. Was running well. Oil changes were inconsistent (my fault) but still had happened fairly regularly.

Oil was changed one week prior to engine failure -- at a different shop which did not specialize in VWs but was close by (they had also noticed worn down front brake pads so I approved changing them).

After the oil change, I was not able to pick up Troff for four days. Then, after a couple days of light driving around town, I set off on a 2-day 140mile round trip for work. On the way back, late at night and nearly home, driving 55mph on a dark twisting state road, the OIL LIGHT came on and a buzzer sounded. I did not know what it meant right away and I was in too dangerous place to stop (because of big trucks on this winding dark highway) so I tried to keep going to find a safe place to pull over. Nothing appeared. Not knowing any better, I tried to use the accelerator. Pretty quickly, I heard a rattling in the engine for a few seconds. So I took my foot off the accelerator and coasted. I think I probably tried the gas again but there was no sound -- Troff was only coasting with no additional power. During the coasting, headlights and dashboard lights dimmed and I think the steering got tighter (and my stomach turned over).

Pulling over at last in a fairly (minimally) safe spot, the battery drained quickly and the car shut down completely. I turned on hazard lights and tried to restart, producing no sound whatsoever. I called for a tow. After about 15 minutes (holding my breath each time a truck went by, shaking the van), the hazard lights themselves started to slow down and get dimmer and dimmer, seeming on the edge of extinction. For safety, I grabbed a flashlight and started to head for the trees; fortunately, a policeman found me and said he'd put out flares until the wrecker came.

I have searched the internet and read whatever I could find this morning but still don't understand how this could happen -- except that the warning light meant I shouldn't have tried the accelerator again. That was my fault -- although, I thought I'd seen the same light or a light like it a year ago (but no buzzer?) and it had turned out to be a false alarm. Was the timing of the oil change just a coincidence?

And about replacing the engine: my shop said they "called around" and had found a used engine in Ohio for $6700 (the cost includes about 2000 in labor). Apparently, comes with a 4-month warranty (but no reimbursement of labor costs). I can't easily afford $6700 and really don't think $11,000 for a new engine is possible. But we love Troff and want him back if possible (or hopefully a van like him). Do you think a used engine is a reasonable choice? By the way, I am not really thinking about resale value since, if Troff is brought back to life, I never intend to sell him.

Thank you for any advice.
Brad

[MarkWard]

Bummer. If the engine had oil in it, then really an oil pump failure would be about the only explanation for what happened. A used engine is always a gamble, but you'd want the shop doing the installation to pull the valve cover and pan at a minimum, replace all the external seals and possibly the waterpump and thermostat. Realize that any warranty on a used engine, will not cover the cost to swap it back out for another used engine that you would also want to have the shop go through. Someone would need to eat the labor most likely.

If your intention is to keep the eurovan, Justin at Greaseworks is doing TDI conversions on Eurovans. I would at least explore this option. Good luck. http://www.greaseworks.org/index.php?module=Content&func=view&pid=19
_________________
☮️

[fastwagens]

Oil light on means loss of pressure not necessary low oil although this will cause low pressure. So yes oil pump failure could deffinatly cause it to seize up. Any ways the cost of upkeep these vans are crazy but I think that is still on the highside since I have seen used vans going for what they want to charge you. We lost an engine in our last one and decided to move on due to the over value of the van was less than replacing the engine. But we still stayed with an evmv. Good luck.

[danfromsyr]

you're going to want to take a walk over to the Eurovan E-news group at http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev_update/ and copy your text from here as you introduce yourself.

there are alot of Eurovan owners in the mid atlantic region


I'm not sure what they mean by "the oil is overflowing"? if the Oil change place OVERFILLED your engine that is actually a very bad thing..
I worked at an oil change in my youth and had seen a claim where they forgot to drain, but then proceded to add and missed a dipstick check..
it can be very tough to make a claim, but there is a process and a review (at the corporate franchise I worked for anyways)
have your current mechanics document their findings.. though it's quite likely they didn't measure the volume of oil if they've removed any... but if they haven't have them drain it and measure with a certification that they'll back you in a claim if it's higher..

best of luck...
_________________

[flopper]

Sorry to hear about this. One thing popped into my mind when you mentioned the overfull oil level is there was a post here where someone found that one or two of their injectors were stuck open causing the crankcase oil to be diluted and loss of oil pressure. Just wouldn't want any newer engine you end up using to die the same way if you end up reusing the fuel system.
_________________
85 Vanagon GL 7pass manual in the process of finding out all that's wrong.
One VW at a time so far, past memories...
75 Westy weekender, 92 Eurovan GL and to start it off 82 Vanagon GL 9pass.

[bbm2u]

Thank you for all of your helpful advice so far. I will follow up on your suggestions. In answer to danfromsyr, my shop just confirmed that they have not drained the oil yet so they will record the amount of oil that drains out. He said: from looking at the dipstick, it looked a couple quarts too high. (!)

[danfromsyr]

[GMByers]

Brad,

Two things.

First, if your front brake pads are worn to the point that they need changed, a yellow light will appear in the instrument panel, if your electronics are working properly. If you have an owners manual, you can see the icon.

Second, with a 110,000 miles on the van, was the timing belt (I think that is the correct name) ever changed? It is supposed to be replaced every 40,000 miles. If it hasn't been changed, it might have slipped or broke.

For what it is worth, I had the same symptom happened to my '93 Eurovan back around 2002-2003. It was the timing belt and the repair cost back then was around $1,000. Just me, but this is where I would take it to a VW dealer and let the dealership provide a diagnosis. But, I also think you may have toasted the engine if you drove it with the light on.
_________________
And then there were two...downsized to 83 Doka &
74 Thing.

[xoo00oox]

There is no timing belt on the VR6 Eurovan. My guess is if you went a very long time from the last oil change, the new oil broke free all the carbon/ sludge and crap that had built up in the crankcase and it plugged the oil pickup tube. The light gave you a warning and if the car was shut off right away it would have saved the engine. Try to find out more about the amount of oil, if it was just slightly overfull I don't think it would have hurt anything. About how long were you going between oil changes?

[bbm2u]

Whatever the true cause, even if it is my fault, I will be glad to know it. At worst, it will be a heck of a lesson learned. I don't know when the last oil change was but I will find out as soon as I can get the records out of the van. Thank you again.

[GMByers]

Timing belt, timing chain....whatever it is....I'm positive it is supposed to be replaced every 40,000 miles.
_________________
And then there were two...downsized to 83 Doka &
74 Thing.

[James 93SLC]

[basil]

Driving lesson 101: Oil light on = STOP immediately or you risk losing the engine. However, you made the choice to find a safe spot to pull over (that's the correct choice, by the way). So ask yourself this: is your life worth $6500? Or even $11,000? It's a lot of money, either way. But when you consider the other option...

If I were in your shoes, I would opt for the used engine. Keep some parts off your old one for spares to use as things wear out down the road (AC compressor, alternator, water pump, tensioner pulley, etc). Count your blessings and chalk it up to experience. Proper maintenance is important, as well as checking the work done by others. Never assume anything, or it may come back and bite you. Even the pros have a bad day.
_________________
Cashtration: The act of buying a Beetle and then emptying your bank accounts.

[kamzcab86]

[bbm2u]

THANK YOU for all of your advice. Compared to the disasters in Japan today, this misfortune is trivial -- still, I must decide whether to replace the engine in my family's Eurovan. If the oil-change shop contributes, that would clearly help.

An update: Although my mechanic said the dipstick looked '1-2 quarts high' (3 days after the engine died), the engine ultimately drained 6 quarts of oil. Recommendation is 5.9 I believe which is nearly the same. Some folks on-line say that in a Eurovan any level over 5 quarts can cause problems. Has anyone else heard that?

One more concern. The oil-change shop's printout says they used 5W20 Kendall oil. Recommended is 5W30 or 5W40 -- and some folks on-line have said never to use 5W-20 in a Volkswagen. Has anyone else heard that? (By the way, the manager of the oil-change shop said that every customer's printout says "5W20 Kendall" with a standard price even if the shop used different oil.)

Thank you for all your help. I appreciated the advice about chalking it up to experience -- which I will certainly do.

[kevabar]

[roetershVW]

Sorry to hear about your fortune. I recently had a transmission die in my 01' EuroVan MV. Not trying to thread jack, but if you end up making the decision to part the van out or replace the drivetrain with a diesel, I would love to buy your transmission from you (as long as it is good that is ).

Good luck getting this sorted out!

[bbm2u]

Thank you for the offer but I am really hoping to keep Troff. By the way, I found a way to afford a new engine and I am planning to do that so I can hopefully avoid the risk of an old engine failing again soon. Also I hope to extend the life of Troff. I hope getting a new engine is the right thing. Thanks.

[CdnVWJunkie]

When looking for a replacement engine consider all VWs 24V V6s. The longblocks are the same but your mechanic will need to change most if not all the bolt on accessories- when it's out no big deal. This will greatly increase the odds of getting a good replacement engine and one at a reasonable cost.

[audiphile]

I have an engine out of a 2001 Eurovan that was hit. it starts right up. Even if you decide to change all the chains and guides while you have it out, you'll still save a lot of money comparing to what you were quoted..

Let me know if you're interested - I'm about to go put this thing in the classifieds, but you get first bid.

-Mike