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UZI
Platinum FUBU
Joined: February 08, 2002
Posts: 13335
Location: phila-DELFT-ia
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 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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it's a tough comparison between a barndoor kombi that is that clean and a non-barndoor deluxe that isn't as clean. you have to consider each for what they are. if i thought the deluxe was worth more then it would be insured for more.
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Concept1
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2004
Posts: 334
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dawerks wrote: |
| UZI wrote: |
| i have my non-barndoor deluxe insured there for $75K. the standard was insured for $60K. . |
Begs the question; could you replace your 57 Deluxe for $75K? I don't personally think so. But, this Kombi can easily be replaced for 80K. |
I also have my '57 euro deluxe insured through Hagerty, for very similar money. I have the '54 25A insured for a fair bit more than the asking price of this kombi, and they had no questions about the value I presented them.
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jeffff
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2006
Posts: 1044
Location: Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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What does selling price have to do with what its insured for?
Insurance companies have no problem taking your money based on a higher appraisal, because they're charging a higher rate............Until it comes time to pay out!!! I know a lot of guys that have had something appraised for $xxxxx than it gets stolen or burns. The insurance company rarely pays out the appraised value.
I have a friend that had his 71 Challenger conv appraised for just over a 100K. The car was stolen, never recovered. The insurance company offered him 50K. He phoned his insurance company and said "how can you offer me 50K when I've been paying a premium based on a 100K car for years, my car is worth a 100K" You know what the insurance company said "prove it" He ended up with just over 75K after over a year screwing around and thousands of dollars in legal fees. People are naive, stuff like this happens all the time.
I don't know what its like in the U.S. but up here 90% of the appraisers have NO clue what they are doing. Anyone can become an appraiser, charge guys $200, do a little research on the internet, make a nice glossy appraisal with lots of pics. Impress the shit out of the owner. They appraise the car too high as to not piss anyone off and because its easier than convincing the owner "hude buddy, your car isn't worth $xxxxx) Everyone is happy...........until there is a claim!! When is the last time any of you have ever seen an appraisal that was too low??? they're always high!!
Just look at our (Canadian) classified ads, they're all the same. "1968 whatever appraised at 20K......will sell for $12500" Yeah the appraiser sure knows what they're doing 
A good appraisal is the estimated selling price. What will said vehicle actually sell for. You guys know the old saying "you want a good appraisal, try and sell it" Vehicles are worth what they're worth, I place zero value on what something is appraised for.
My little rant has NOTHING to do with Brendans 80K bus, Kens barndoor or his deluxe mentioned above. I would love to own any of those 3.  |
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dawerks
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Joined: September 15, 2010
Posts: 2349
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jeffff wrote: |
What does selling price have to do with what its insured for?
Insurance companies have no problem taking your money based on a higher appraisal, because they're charging a higher rate............Until it comes time to pay out!!! I know a lot of guys that have had something appraised for $xxxxx than it gets stolen or burns. The insurance company rarely pays out the appraised value.
I have a friend that had his 71 Challenger conv appraised for just over a 100K. The car was stolen, never recovered. The insurance company offered him 50K. He phoned his insurance company and said "how can you offer me 50K when I've been paying a premium based on a 100K car for years, my car is worth a 100K" You know what the insurance company said "prove it" He ended up with just over 75K after over a year screwing around and thousands of dollars in legal fees. People are naive, stuff like this happens all the time.
I don't know what its like in the U.S. but up here 90% of the appraisers have NO clue what they are doing. Anyone can become an appraiser, charge guys $200, do a little research on the internet, make a nice glossy appraisal with lots of pics. Impress the shit out of the owner. They appraise the car too high as to not piss anyone off and because its easier than convincing the owner "hude buddy, your car isn't worth $xxxxx) Everyone is happy...........until there is a claim!! When is the last time any of you have ever seen an appraisal that was too low??? they're always high!!
Just look at our (Canadian) classified ads, they're all the same. "1968 whatever appraised at 20K......will sell for $12500" Yeah the appraiser sure knows what they're doing
A good appraisal is the estimated selling price. What will said vehicle actually sell for. You guys know the old saying "you want a good appraisal, try and sell it" Vehicles are worth what they're worth, I place zero value on what something is appraised for.
My little rant has NOTHING to do with Brendans 80K bus, Kens barndoor or his deluxe mentioned above. I would love to own any of those 3. |
Hey jeffff, doesn't the Little Lot do appraisals?
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jeffff
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2006
Posts: 1044
Location: Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dawerks wrote: |
| jeffff wrote: |
What does selling price have to do with what its insured for?
Insurance companies have no problem taking your money based on a higher appraisal, because they're charging a higher rate............Until it comes time to pay out!!! I know a lot of guys that have had something appraised for $xxxxx than it gets stolen or burns. The insurance company rarely pays out the appraised value.
I have a friend that had his 71 Challenger conv appraised for just over a 100K. The car was stolen, never recovered. The insurance company offered him 50K. He phoned his insurance company and said "how can you offer me 50K when I've been paying a premium based on a 100K car for years, my car is worth a 100K" You know what the insurance company said "prove it" He ended up with just over 75K after over a year screwing around and thousands of dollars in legal fees. People are naive, stuff like this happens all the time.
I don't know what its like in the U.S. but up here 90% of the appraisers have NO clue what they are doing. Anyone can become an appraiser, charge guys $200, do a little research on the internet, make a nice glossy appraisal with lots of pics. Impress the shit out of the owner. They appraise the car too high as to not piss anyone off and because its easier than convincing the owner "hude buddy, your car isn't worth $xxxxx) Everyone is happy...........until there is a claim!! When is the last time any of you have ever seen an appraisal that was too low??? they're always high!!
Just look at our (Canadian) classified ads, they're all the same. "1968 whatever appraised at 20K......will sell for $12500" Yeah the appraiser sure knows what they're doing
A good appraisal is the estimated selling price. What will said vehicle actually sell for. You guys know the old saying "you want a good appraisal, try and sell it" Vehicles are worth what they're worth, I place zero value on what something is appraised for.
My little rant has NOTHING to do with Brendans 80K bus, Kens barndoor or his deluxe mentioned above. I would love to own any of those 3. |
Hey jeffff, doesn't the Little Lot do appraisals? |
Yep, we've (my father) has been doing them since the 70s. I have first hand experience dealing with "other" appraisers and insurance companies. I could go on and on but I won't. I'd rather read about barndoors |
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dawerks
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Joined: September 15, 2010
Posts: 2349
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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You better not let your pops read your message!! 
(I'm just joshin ya, hope you don't mind!!!)
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UZI
Platinum FUBU
Joined: February 08, 2002
Posts: 13335
Location: phila-DELFT-ia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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what the insurance angle has to do with it is really simple. in order to have some confidence in buying a vehicle for that amount or any amount is you have to be able to get insurance for what you have into it. i have never heard of anyone having a problem with getting hagerty to pay out.
hagerty also logs the selling price of cars that they have insured. just about every time i've sold a car in the past few years, they ask me if i would mind telling them what i got for the vehicle for their database. if anyone has a pressed bumper single cab or a PGSG standard that they need to file a claim for, you'll have no problem getting your money.
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dawerks
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Joined: September 15, 2010
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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It's a little different in Canada regarding insurance. The insurance companies KNOW people will not litigate or fight hard for what's right, so they will lowball, delay, cajole etc etc. There is alot of misconceptions in the public caused by insurance company tactics (the latest one people are trying to fight is 'buying your car back.')
Apparently (I'm not 100% sure), in the US you can always get your car back/buy it back. But in Canada this isn't always the case or if you try to buy it back, they want decent money for it (the exact specifics I can't tell you as I'm not very interested). Meaning if you tried to buy your classic back, they could deny you and just crush it!!!
The gist being, insurance companies are going to take you for a bigger ride in Canada than in the US. Even the example jefff posted of the Charger, the guy basically got 'screwed' 25K!! I don't think that would go down in the US?
Likewise, we get screwed on things like health care (yeah it's 'free', our taxes are insane) but when a doctor or nurse screws up, what do we do? Nothing. We have very little litigation recourse and they know it. I know you guys hate your lawyers, but the lack of them here isn't any more joyous
SORRY for MY rant now! I've been sanding too much and my brain has turned to mush!
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jeffff
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Joined: February 23, 2006
Posts: 1044
Location: Alberta, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| dawerks wrote: |
You better not let your pops read your message!!
(I'm just joshin ya, hope you don't mind!!!) |
Oh hell, if he read this he would type for an hour reiterating what I have said. The point I'm trying to make is that there are good and bad appraisers. The bad ones do nothing but harm for the hobby. When someone wants an honest opinion from a "trusted" appraiser and gets an appraisal for 50% to double of what the car is actually worth......what good is that??
Owners then get a false sense of security. "Oh i'm so excited that my car is worth 30K"....when 18K is more like it.
The above example of the Challenger is not that the owner got screwed, its that the guy who appraised the car didn't know what he was talking about. The car was only worth 75K...but:
-The owner is led to believe that the car is worth a 100K.
-The owner assumes he's properly insured for a 100K car
-Purchased the car based on the appraisal
-Pays insurance for a 100K car
All the above statements are wrong, but because a so called "expert" said so........
We got involved after the fact. Hired to clean up the mess basically. If the car was appraised by a reputable appraiser and appraised for the right amount in the first place, there never would have been a problem. Its not the insurance companies causing the problems. It's Jo Blow appraiser that is.
Dawerks, you could place an ad in your local paper. "ABC123 appraisals $200"!!!. And the following day you could be taking peoples hard earned money doing appraisals. There is no course or prerequisite to become an appraiser. Yet everyone places so much value on what these "experts" say. |
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volksfahrer.nl
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Joined: September 18, 2003
Posts: 2128
Location: Delft Holland
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| Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Here in Holland you can only insure your car for the value that was given through an certified appraisel.
This guarantees that the insurance company has to pay the value that the car is insured for.
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ThatVWGuy
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Joined: March 12, 2001
Posts: 418
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| EA57RHD wrote: |
An article I scanned from a 1995 NEATO old bus review showing the 1954 Kombi 20-096154 sorry, scan did not come out clear when I posted to this thread. However, it's very clear on my gallery photos.
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Great article! The author is obviously a genius!
That was a very memorable drive for me and started a tradition of me allowing people to drive my restored busses so they could learn what a "done right" bus drives like. I have a log book which lists each of the 50+/- people that I allowed to drive my restored Binz. You have no idea how many people have never driven a splitty with good brakes and tight steering. I have motivated many people to take their bus from "Running & driving" to "Running and driving RIGHT". I would encourage all bus owners with nice busses to share the love on ocassion and let others get behind the wheel.
...as far as the Kombi, it is worth every penny of $80K. |
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ThatVWGuy
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Joined: March 12, 2001
Posts: 418
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| EA57RHD wrote: |
| I sold the 54 to David Fuentes, however I'm not sure he had it long. I heard it went to Bill Dierickx (?) I also heard that Phil and Merybeth Leadley aquired it (?). It then went to Howerd Kilgore, Bruce Braun, and now it resides in Tennessee with you know who. The Respray and light restoration was done during Bruce Brauns ownership. |
Actually the respray and reupholstery were done when Howard owned it. I know the painters name if the current owner want's to contact me. I can't remember the name of the guy Howard bought it from right now but it wasn't Leadley. Same guy owned an original '50 vert if that rings a bell with anyone. He had lived in CA and was in the Vintage VW parts business. |
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