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The right way to lower or raise the rear of an air-cooled VW
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: The right way to lower or raise the rear of an air-cooled VW Reply with quote

Hi there. To all of the people that have lowered their VW and are unsatisfied with the ride, my company is Atomwerk Engineering Inc. and we have developed a solution to this. DropPlates. Kinda like drop spindles Shocked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-BDmGMifI
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you investigated how much travel the axle has at the tranny before it binds up in the sidecovers?
Why limit downtravel so severly?
Why do the splined parts bolt on instead of weld?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

modok wrote:
Have you investigated how much travel the axle has at the tranny before it binds up in the sidecovers?
Why limit downtravel so severly?
Why do the splined parts bolt on instead of weld?


VWs were designed to only have a certain amount of downward travel. To much of this downward travel of the rear wheel can leave to dangerous tuck. This is the reason that I stress that the plate should only leave the bottom stopper no more than .5 inches. However this principle of limited downward travel applies across the board at all heights. That is why I have designed plates that work correctly at that heights that the end user wishes for his/her vehicle. You can drop your car up to 3 inches, or raise your baja as much as 3 inches and experience the same feel that the factory intended but have better travel for those extra large speed bumps Wink[/u][/i]
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

modok wrote:

Why do the splined parts bolt on instead of weld?


The spline stub is bolted on because I am about to release an adjustable hub that allows for rapid hassle-free height-adjustment on the fly (patent pending).
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
modok wrote:

Why do the splined parts bolt on instead of weld?


The spline stub is bolted on because I am about to release an adjustable hub that allows for rapid hassle-free height-adjustment on the fly (patent pending).

Good idea!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
modok wrote:
Have you investigated how much travel the axle has at the tranny before it binds up in the sidecovers?
Why limit downtravel so severly?
Why do the splined parts bolt on instead of weld?


VWs were designed to only have a certain amount of downward travel. To much of this downward travel of the rear wheel can leave to dangerous tuck. This is the reason that I stress that the plate should only leave the bottom stopper no more than .5 inches. However this principle of limited downward travel applies across the board at all heights. That is why I have designed plates that work correctly at that heights that the end user wishes for his/her vehicle. You can drop your car up to 3 inches, or raise your baja as much as 3 inches and experience the same feel that the factory intended but have better travel for those extra large speed bumps Wink[/u][/i]


The axle and wheel only have so much travel before they bind up.
I don't "think" you can go a full three inches up past the OE bump stop before stuff hits, but I'm not positive, was hoping you did look into that and would know yourself.
There is no problem with having 1" or 1.5" droop past 0 camber, so I don't know why you'd limit the downtravel more than that. The danger of tuck is about toe-in and camber and roll center, not the actual amount of travel.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The axle will not bind at three inch lift or drop. I have investigated this. This is why stoppers and the proper amount of travel is CRITICAL. Oh and these plates are calculated to not change the toe in like regular springplates do when ride height deviates. I was talking about rear tuck, not toe in. Dangerous tuck and toe in combined? Well I think that's what you are talking about and that's a scary scenario!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, i'm with you bro
Yeah, if you set the toe straight with the spring plates level, then it will toe-in as it travels up.....OR down. And so if you hit the brakes at high speed and the rear wheels tuck and toe in you can have speed wobble from hell!
Gene Berg advised to set the rear end up so it never travels into toe-in at any point in the down travel. And it isn't that hard to do EXCEPT that the spring plates are not long enough.
Your spring plates are longer and that is VERY helpful.

Then again I spose a 3" drop is about style not performance anyway, so it doesen't really matter if your wheels hit the car or not. DRIVE SLOW posers......haha
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

modok wrote:
Ok, i'm with you bro
Yeah, if you set the toe straight with the spring plates level, then it will toe-in as it travels up.....OR down. And so if you hit the brakes at high speed and the rear wheels tuck and toe in you can have speed wobble from hell!
Gene Berg advised to set the rear end up so it never travels into toe-in at any point in the down travel. And it isn't that hard to do EXCEPT that the spring plates are not long enough.
Your spring plates are longer and that is VERY helpful.


Nicely put and very sound advice. You are 100% right sir! Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

modok wrote:
Then again I spose a 3" drop is about style not performance anyway, so it doesen't really matter if your wheels hit the car or not. DRIVE SLOW posers......haha


I live on a rough, unpaved road. You would never guess that the car was lowered 3 inches if you were driving with me brother. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the thing I see with drop springplates:

The dogleg in the plate does nothing. It's like Berg carb linkage with the bends in the down-rods. It does nothing vs. straight arms. From pivot point to pivot point (point A to point B) the distance does NOT change. You'll flatten the bumpstops before the stock springplate runs out of movement with stock parts. Having a bendy rod vs. a straight rod does absolutely nothing for the geometry of the suspension/linkage.

Sorry, facts be facts. Looks to be quality work though. But is doing nothing different than a stock plate other than being shaped differently.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eaallred wrote:
Here's the thing I see with drop springplates:
Sorry, facts be facts. Looks to be quality work though. But is doing nothing different than a stock plate other than being shaped differently.


You sir are 100% wrong. Good chat though Wink
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All engineering and speculation aside, the proof is in the pudding. I am driving on the drop plates. They work. And they work well.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about making a 1" or 2" drop plate ? Less camber change with swingaxle . Looks like a high quality plate good job .
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuguboy wrote:
What about making a 1" or 2" drop plate ? Less camber change with swingaxle . Looks like a high quality plate good job .


Thank you. Yes that size is available.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much and where can I check them out ?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out my website http://atomwerk.org/plates.html
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, the 1" or 2" drop would be fine, and the extra toe adjustment is a great feature.

The 3" scares me a little, that is a lot more up travel from stock, and the droop is limited more than healthy, but I guess some cases maybe that'd be ok.
I'll tell you for a fact on MY car a lot of other things would hit before the bump stop, including the oil sump!, so be careful.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

modok wrote:
Oh yeah, the 1" or 2" drop would be fine, and the extra toe adjustment is a great feature.

The 3" scares me a little, that is a lot more up travel from stock, and the droop is limited more than healthy, but I guess some cases maybe that'd be ok.
I'll tell you for a fact on MY car a lot of other things would hit before the bump stop, including the oil sump!, so be careful.


Good words of advice. The 3 inch drop need to be installed precisely otherwise it could be too drastic.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Eaallred wrote:
Here's the thing I see with drop springplates:
Sorry, facts be facts. Looks to be quality work though. But is doing nothing different than a stock plate other than being shaped differently.


You sir are 100% wrong. Good chat though Wink


Disagree. Sorry. What makes you think it changes anything? Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but you've changed the shape of the plate, but the geometry is still the same.
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