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bignick
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2006
Posts: 299
Location: Chattanooga, TN
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 Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Frame and torsion tube repair |
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| mattcuddy wrote: |
| busdaddy wrote: |
So.... finally down to the solid stuff and barely enough room to work:
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Man, that thing is almost in two pieces! What did you do to ensure correct alignment on welding? Pieces of angle the length of the tube? |
I bet you could use a piece of angle to help align it.
My 74 has some pretty weak frame areas BEHIND the torsion tube that I am going to have to patch up like this at some point. I've been debating doing this level of repair or just keeping it supported with a few brackets in an attempt to keep another bus on the road. After seeing this, I might just bite the bullet and patch 'er up right
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'69 bug (Bonnie)
'74 Westy (Penelope) |
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mattcuddy
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2003
Posts: 2036
Location: Philly, PA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Frame and torsion tube repair |
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| bignick wrote: |
| mattcuddy wrote: |
Man, that thing is almost in two pieces! What did you do to ensure correct alignment on welding? Pieces of angle the length of the tube? |
I bet you could use a piece of angle to help align it.
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Yea, thats what I'd do if I was doing the repair. It can't hurt, even if it doesn't help.
Can any one confirm the following?:
"Some buses have gussets around where the torsion tube passes through the frame and some do not. This is based on year and/or Westy (or other "heavy duty" model) designation."
I'd love it if Gerson reproduced these gussets as in my experience these are what seem to rust out first with solid metal still on the tube/frame. |
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Jim Bear
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Watkinsville, GA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:25 am Post subject: props |
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Props on the amazing fix! I would have been spooked off long before that. Nicely done and awesome show of passion for the ride!
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"You're either on the bus, or you're off the bus." ~kk
'85 Vanagon Westy - George In the Stable 2020-?/'74 Weekender - Ophelia In the Stable 2007- ?/'69 Beetle Convertible - SOLD 2017-2020/'67 Beetle - September SOLD 2013-2016  /'67 SO42 Westy - Sage SOLD 1996-2001 /'69 Transporter - Baby Blue SOLD 1995-1995/'72 Westy - Nelly - SOLD 1990-1995--STOP FRACKING |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51155
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks!, if it wasn't a truck it may not have been worth it, but lately it seems like any model is worth saving.
| mattcuddy wrote: |
Can any one confirm the following?:
"Some buses have gussets around where the torsion tube passes through the frame and some do not. This is based on year and/or Westy (or other "heavy duty" model) designation." |
Matt: I've been looking at many frames this last week and they all have the reinforcing ring on the inner sides, even those girly stationwagons  Still have to see a 68 SW but a 71 SW has them. Maybe it's a split only thing?
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16886
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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busdaddy, i feel the same way about my single cab. it is so beat to shit and has been a tester for bondo and duraglass, but it's a truck. i know i could fix it correctly, but at what cost? what are you planning for yours? a mechanically sound bang around towner or full resto?
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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mattcuddy
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2003
Posts: 2036
Location: Philly, PA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| mattcuddy wrote: |
Can any one confirm the following?:
"Some buses have gussets around where the torsion tube passes through the frame and some do not. This is based on year and/or Westy (or other "heavy duty" model) designation." |
Matt: I've been looking at many frames this last week and they all have the reinforcing ring on the inner sides, even those girly stationwagons Still have to see a 68 SW but a 71 SW has them. Maybe it's a split only thing? |
Thanks. It could be all models got it. I just have this memory in the back of my head that "heavy duty" vehicles got the ring and "normal" buses didn't get them. Totally anecdotal, and I could be crazy. Just trying to confirm.  |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51155
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| busdaddy, i feel the same way about my single cab. it is so beat to shit and has been a tester for bondo and duraglass, but it's a truck. i know i could fix it correctly, but at what cost? what are you planning for yours? a mechanically sound bang around towner or full resto? |
That DC was a buddies but I'm in the middle of a similar fix on my 70 SC (nothing like some practice on someone elses first  ), after the hack job the PO did on his "professional rust repair" anything is an improvement. Show truck?? Hahahaha............ your's looks sooooo familiar, I like to call it preserved...sorta...., at least now I can haul a load of bricks over railroad tracks and not have it disintigrate doing it The DC in the pics is similar, semi shiny on the outside but a work in progress below, fools the non VW types.
I've almost completed the derepairing (good practice for hand forming bay lower body parts), it'll never be a prime example but being solid and on the road gives it a huge leg up over most of the other commercials around here, I'm really looking forward to driving through a big puddle and not filling the treasure chest with water .
I really miss my truck!
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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curtis4085
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011
Posts: 4806
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Really nice fix. Great pictures 
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bugger101
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2010
Posts: 1559
Location: orlando
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chrisradioman
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2007
Posts: 4873
Location: Swansea (Sunny Penllergaer) Wales UK
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tavogalarza
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2008
Posts: 30
Location: Ellenton ,Florida
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Frame and torsion tube repair |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
As buses age and it gets harder to find dry ones sometimes you've gotta make do with what's available, many have asked if the frame was repairable, sure it is but I wouldn't recommend this for someone with no welding experience.
here's a recent repair I did on a 68 doublecab. It's not show or restoration quality by any means, the rest of the truck has already had 2 major rust repair/rebuild hacks already in it's life and the frame finally gave in to mother nature, think of it as preservation. Some day I hope to get pics of a really nice repair, sadly I'm kind of ADD and stopping to take pics messes up my work mojo so this will have to do, cameras don't last long around grinding dust either.
So here's what I started with, the job originally was a rear end rebush and spring plate adjust until I noticed the end of the torsion tube moved up and down as I jacked and pryed  The cause became obvious once I had a look inside:
This one shows the crack in the tube, upon closer inspection it went from 2:00 to 10:00 on the tube, not good!
So I start grinding to get a better look, the white powder is bondo dust that was camoflaging a previous repair, someone had skinned the area with a layer of 20 ga and filled the seams to disguise it, nice!, although it was already rough I suspect the quickie patch acellerated the cancer.
Once some of the frame and the scale was out of the way it became evident this wasn't going to be done this afternoon 
It didn't look that bad from the outside, really, but after being full of dirt, salt and moisture for many years the demons were busy in the dark recesses.
Sorry for the crappy pic but you can make out the crack running up to the top of the tube here:
Keep grinding and cutting, sooner or later you'll hit solid metal and have enough room to work.....here's the rest of the frame coming off the tube, notice the double layers:
Noice!, looks like it was full to the top at one time:
View from the middle of the truck:
Oh yeah, the frame was hooped all the way up to where the box section stops, yay!
So.... finally down to the solid stuff and barely enough room to work:
Luckily I had another frame to make templates off, damn that 12 gauge is a bitch to cut. Start by patching the tube and then fitting the frame in sections:
More frame, piece by piece:
Add the reinforcing flange (no razzing on the welds until you've welded satin coat on your back under a bus with an aggravating evil welder  )
Voila! just like brand old! (well better than a big crack and likely to outlast the rest of the truck)
I added a drain hole at the bottom of the frame dip and where each outrigger/crossmember meets the frame to hopefully prevent this from happening again.
Edit: Pics arranged in order. |
Man, This just gives me courage to buy what i am planning to buy, I think it is the same deal I hope I am gonna go see it on Saturday, hopefully it will be workable. thanks for all the info, very good ilustrations |
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Alchemyst
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2013
Posts: 8
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Frame and torsion tube repair |
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This post poured some drops of enthusiasm in my glass half-empty.
Nice job !
I have the same problem - there is so much rust in the same point and I do not know yet if the torsiontubes inside are intact or cracked .
I will got our 1970 bus to a good welder soon. However - do you (or anybody out there ) have a template of these beams - specially where they hold the torsion tubes @
thank you |
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remo032
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2018
Posts: 11
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Frame and torsion tube repair FAQ |
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| I know this is an old thread but I'm in the middle of the same repair on a 73 Westy and figured I'd ask here rather than start a new thread. My tube is still solid on the top 50% but the bottom is pretty bad does anybody know what the wall thickness is on the tube? |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51155
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Frame and torsion tube repair FAQ |
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~3mm, not sure what that translates to in gauge.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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hopeod
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2020
Posts: 6
Location: Newfoundland,Canada
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| Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Frame and torsion tube repair FAQ |
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| remo032 wrote: |
| I know this is an old thread but I'm in the middle of the same repair on a 73 Westy and figured I'd ask here rather than start a new thread. My tube is still solid on the top 50% but the bottom is pretty bad does anybody know what the wall thickness is on the tube? |
https://www.zygology.com/store/pc/viewcontent.asp?idpage=42 here is a mm to gauge conversion link. You'd want to use 10 or 12 gauge, for something structural like this. I suppose how you reinforce it you could get away with 14, but why?
There may/ may not be a template; but you can always make a guide with cardboard before cutting your metal
Im wondering since its been 6 years- did you ever do the repair? This is what i am about to tackle
cheers!
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