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vanjoe Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2009 Posts: 606 Location: Santa Maria
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:43 pm Post subject: Is the GL5 gear oil guilty of murder for the 3/4 slider? LO |
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Moderator edit: More information to be found at:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=366486
This thread is LOCKED.
Ok so I stopped by a shop I get parts from sometimes down the street from my house. I asked the owner about getting my 4-speed manual trans rebuit because I am afraid of the 3/4 slider going out. He had no clue what the hell I was talking about. He asked where I heard this from and I told him The Samba. He stated that the reason guys are having this problem is they are most likely running a GL5 instead of the GL4 gear oil. He stated that is a big NO NO! In these vans. So what do you guys think about this? I am not sure about this but I did find this link while researching it.
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/GearOil.html _________________ 1990 VW Vanagon tin top weekender Carat
1998 Mercedes S420
"Why is there never time to do it right the first time, but there is always time to do it twice?"
"Back to the basics!" |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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The slider breaks for long use and not from the type or quality of the lubricant. VW specifies GL-4 because the alloy they use for the synchros will become etched by GL-5. What problems are you having with your transmission? |
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vanjoe Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2009 Posts: 606 Location: Santa Maria
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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I am not having any problems YET! I was just trying to be proactive. I don't want to end up with the transaxle "sudden death syndrome." _________________ 1990 VW Vanagon tin top weekender Carat
1998 Mercedes S420
"Why is there never time to do it right the first time, but there is always time to do it twice?"
"Back to the basics!" |
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Kburns737 Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2008 Posts: 184 Location: Ventura County
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well the oil has absolutely nothing to do with the 3/4 slider hub failure its an inherent design flaw. But the stuff is terrible for your syncros so just change to some good amsoil transaxle lube and drive it til you have some problems, it could last forever, it could go tomorrow, no real way to know. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50216
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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How many miles are on your gear box. If high, it is likely that the slider has already been replace. |
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vanjoe Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2009 Posts: 606 Location: Santa Maria
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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There is 150,000 on it. There is no record in the reciepts that I have that show any work on it. _________________ 1990 VW Vanagon tin top weekender Carat
1998 Mercedes S420
"Why is there never time to do it right the first time, but there is always time to do it twice?"
"Back to the basics!" |
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Brickwerks Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2010 Posts: 214 Location: West Yorkshire - UK
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:36 am Post subject: |
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As far as I know the additive in GL5 is quite agressive and it strips the coating from the synchros.
We only use GL4 in the gearboxes, we use GL5 in the front diff however on syncro.
Speaking to a local oil manufacturer (Millers Oil) then they say that most oils now are dual spec, the additive that was in GL5 has been replaced with something less aggressive (sulphur content??)
It was a while ago, my memory is terrible, it was something like that.
Best bet is just to use GL4. _________________
whynotvw wrote: |
I see you wanna start some shit. whats your fuckin probelm? your selling your measly shitty products. bloody brit |
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the caveman Samba Member
Joined: August 09, 2004 Posts: 885 Location: island state of Montreal
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:19 am Post subject: |
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It has nothing to do with the oil. Even though GL5 can be problematic, it's not the specific cause of the 3/4 slider failure. If you saw how the hub is made you would understand why it fails. Once VW realized the problem they [eventually ] made an updated part. It can fail, no matter what oil you use. The guy you talked to has zero experience with those transmissions or he would have known about the problem |
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Williamtaylor33 Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007 Posts: 1545 Location: Arkansas
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: |
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here's the failure. Nothing to do with oil but everything to do with those square corners. _________________ 89 Bostig powered syncro westy |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7717 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:39 am Post subject: |
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He may have an opinion on gear lube, but if he doesn't know about the 3-4 slider hub problem then that's NOT the guy to do your tranny work.
Are you using GL5? If not then follow the good advice here (stick w/GL4, whatever) and get on with your life.
You "want to be proactive"...
At 150k w/no records of tranny work, you have to assume you're in the danger zone.
Get this done SOON before you bust your hub & kill your core. It's cheaper that way!
Happy trails... _________________ 86 White Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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scobax Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2007 Posts: 236 Location: Bend, Oregon
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Dhaavers nailed it.
I am sure that the shop you went to does good work, and GL5 is a legitamate concern but their unfamiliarity with the 3/4 slider issue is a red flag. You may save a few bucks initially having them rebuild your transmission, but I would be concerned that the savings will be short lived, and the ensuing frustrations could far eclipse any additional cost you might pay at a reputed rebuilder.
Shops like AA Transaxle and German Transaxle just to name two are the only way to go with these boxes. They are higher priced than, say, AAmco, but it is for a very good reason. They are not gouging, they are charging for the kind of expertise that prevents you from going back for more repairs or adjustments. It's a lot of little things, like knowing about the 3/4 slider for example. It's not rocket science, but it ain't a Chevy either.
I swear, my favorite quote pertaining to Vanagon parts and repair has become, "It's not expensive, it's priceless". Pay a little more now to save a lot later.
Call up Ken at German Transaxle in Bend, OR (hometown plug!) or call Daryl at AA Transaxle in Seattle. They are both very knowledgeable. They can give you a realistic turn-around time for the rebuild and will be able to speak with expertise about your GL5 questions and the 3/4 slider. You'll be glad you did. _________________ 87 Syncro Westy w/ Suby 2.5
RIP: 2.1 WBX. You were a good dog 'ol feller
“The word adventure has gotten overused. For me, when everything goes wrong, that's when adventure starts” -Yvon Chouinard
"It's not expensive, its priceless" -Unknown |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Williamtaylor33 wrote: |
here's the failure. Nothing to do with oil but everything to do with those square corners. |
YEP!
The square cornered ones break. EVEN the ones with the round cut out fail eventually. The Weddle supplied part is modified and hardened to minimize the issue more. My Rancho rebuild is peppered with several Weddle parts and I hope it to last another 200K. _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)
Last edited by r39o on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:44 am Post subject: |
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vanjoe wrote: |
There is 150,000 on it. There is no record in the reciepts that I have that show any work on it. |
I have recent experience with a 3/4 slider in my 1990 Multivan with some 200K on it. The above square cutout is likely what you have. My round cutout did not totally fail but other worn parts conspired to make my have shifting issues with 3rd. My box gave me warning. Some do not. Some just lock, but frequently can be coaxed down the road so you can get it fixed. Do not wait too long after you notice shifting issues.
This is a KNOWN failure and seems to have almost nothing to do with the lubricant in Vanagon transmissions.
FYI: It is gonna cost you about $1000 to preemptively fix your transmission. Might be wiser just to get a used one and have it over hauled and swap. Since I was doing a Suby swap, I just had the original done. With some modifications and gear changes I spent close to $1700 on my overhaul. If you wait, it costs more!
I'd leave it until you begin to notice something or need to do some other work like a clutch or axles. _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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dredward Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007 Posts: 1081
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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r39o wrote: |
Williamtaylor33 wrote: |
here's the failure. Nothing to do with oil but everything to do with those square corners. |
YEP!
The square cornered ones break. EVEN the ones with the round cut out fail eventually. The Weddle supplied part is modified and hardened to minimize the issue more. My Rancho rebuild is peppered with several Weddle parts and I hope it to last another 200K. |
Rancho ROCKS!!!!! _________________ Cars owned: 1979/89 scirraco, 1983 gti, 1984 gti, 1986 gti, 1990 gli, 1989 cabriolet(2.0,16v conversion), 1992 gti, 1982 Westy, 1987 syncro Westy(w/ 1.8t conversion stg1 chip), and finally 2004 r32.... |
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John Of the north Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2010 Posts: 173 Location: Calgary Alberta
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vanjoe Samba Member
Joined: December 25, 2009 Posts: 606 Location: Santa Maria
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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The place I get parts from sometimes is just down the street from my house. I do all my own work and I was in there getting some parts and ans started talking with the guy and that is how the subject came up. I only live 30 minutes from Go Westy and usually get most of my stuff from them. I will go with the GW transmission when I am ready. I really want one of their 5 speeds but will never be able to afford it. _________________ 1990 VW Vanagon tin top weekender Carat
1998 Mercedes S420
"Why is there never time to do it right the first time, but there is always time to do it twice?"
"Back to the basics!" |
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Kburns737 Samba Member
Joined: October 21, 2008 Posts: 184 Location: Ventura County
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Why go with the GW trans? Price seems pretty steep to me and we've all heard the core refund horror stories from that part of the world. Rancho isn't too far away and they seem to do a great job for one of the most reasonable prices out there - thats where I'll be sending my syncro tranny off to hopefully, unless I decide to suffer through rebuilding it myself, |
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a914622 Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004 Posts: 835 Location: Westend of HWY2 , Wash
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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I know there is a huge change between gl5 and gl4.
The toyota dealer put gl4 in my trucks 5 speed. ( should be gl5) IT Took both hands to shift. I changed to redline gl5 and it shifts like the porsche!!
If gl4 is called for use it!!
jcl _________________ 87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru |
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r39o Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 9800 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Although this IS a transmission oil thread, I do not want another debate to start. From the FAQ here is a good transmission lube debate already in progress:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=366486
Kiddies, this thread is LOCKED and please continue at the above URL.
Thanks for your understanding. _________________ "Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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