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Is the GL5 gear oil guilty of murder for the 3/4 slider? LO
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vanjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:43 pm    Post subject: Is the GL5 gear oil guilty of murder for the 3/4 slider? LO Reply with quote

Moderator edit: More information to be found at:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=366486

This thread is LOCKED.

Ok so I stopped by a shop I get parts from sometimes down the street from my house. I asked the owner about getting my 4-speed manual trans rebuit because I am afraid of the 3/4 slider going out. He had no clue what the hell I was talking about. He asked where I heard this from and I told him The Samba. He stated that the reason guys are having this problem is they are most likely running a GL5 instead of the GL4 gear oil. He stated that is a big NO NO! In these vans. So what do you guys think about this? I am not sure about this but I did find this link while researching it.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/GearOil.html
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The slider breaks for long use and not from the type or quality of the lubricant. VW specifies GL-4 because the alloy they use for the synchros will become etched by GL-5. What problems are you having with your transmission?
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vanjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not having any problems YET! I was just trying to be proactive. I don't want to end up with the transaxle "sudden death syndrome."
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Kburns737
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the oil has absolutely nothing to do with the 3/4 slider hub failure its an inherent design flaw. But the stuff is terrible for your syncros so just change to some good amsoil transaxle lube and drive it til you have some problems, it could last forever, it could go tomorrow, no real way to know.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many miles are on your gear box. If high, it is likely that the slider has already been replace.
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vanjoe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is 150,000 on it. There is no record in the reciepts that I have that show any work on it.
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Brickwerks
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know the additive in GL5 is quite agressive and it strips the coating from the synchros.

We only use GL4 in the gearboxes, we use GL5 in the front diff however on syncro.

Speaking to a local oil manufacturer (Millers Oil) then they say that most oils now are dual spec, the additive that was in GL5 has been replaced with something less aggressive (sulphur content??)
It was a while ago, my memory is terrible, it was something like that.
Best bet is just to use GL4.
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the caveman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has nothing to do with the oil. Even though GL5 can be problematic, it's not the specific cause of the 3/4 slider failure. If you saw how the hub is made you would understand why it fails. Once VW realized the problem they [eventually ] made an updated part. It can fail, no matter what oil you use. The guy you talked to has zero experience with those transmissions or he would have known about the problem
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Williamtaylor33
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

here's the failure. Nothing to do with oil but everything to do with those square corners.
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He may have an opinion on gear lube, but if he doesn't know about the 3-4 slider hub problem then that's NOT the guy to do your tranny work.

Are you using GL5? If not then follow the good advice here (stick w/GL4, whatever) and get on with your life.

You "want to be proactive"...
At 150k w/no records of tranny work, you have to assume you're in the danger zone.
Get this done SOON before you bust your hub & kill your core. It's cheaper that way!

Happy trails...
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scobax
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dhaavers nailed it.

I am sure that the shop you went to does good work, and GL5 is a legitamate concern but their unfamiliarity with the 3/4 slider issue is a red flag. You may save a few bucks initially having them rebuild your transmission, but I would be concerned that the savings will be short lived, and the ensuing frustrations could far eclipse any additional cost you might pay at a reputed rebuilder.

Shops like AA Transaxle and German Transaxle just to name two are the only way to go with these boxes. They are higher priced than, say, AAmco, but it is for a very good reason. They are not gouging, they are charging for the kind of expertise that prevents you from going back for more repairs or adjustments. It's a lot of little things, like knowing about the 3/4 slider for example. It's not rocket science, but it ain't a Chevy either.

I swear, my favorite quote pertaining to Vanagon parts and repair has become, "It's not expensive, it's priceless". Pay a little more now to save a lot later.

Call up Ken at German Transaxle in Bend, OR (hometown plug!) or call Daryl at AA Transaxle in Seattle. They are both very knowledgeable. They can give you a realistic turn-around time for the rebuild and will be able to speak with expertise about your GL5 questions and the 3/4 slider. You'll be glad you did.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Williamtaylor33 wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

here's the failure. Nothing to do with oil but everything to do with those square corners.

YEP!

The square cornered ones break. EVEN the ones with the round cut out fail eventually. The Weddle supplied part is modified and hardened to minimize the issue more. My Rancho rebuild is peppered with several Weddle parts and I hope it to last another 200K.
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Last edited by r39o on Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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r39o
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vanjoe wrote:
There is 150,000 on it. There is no record in the reciepts that I have that show any work on it.

I have recent experience with a 3/4 slider in my 1990 Multivan with some 200K on it. The above square cutout is likely what you have. My round cutout did not totally fail but other worn parts conspired to make my have shifting issues with 3rd. My box gave me warning. Some do not. Some just lock, but frequently can be coaxed down the road so you can get it fixed. Do not wait too long after you notice shifting issues.

This is a KNOWN failure and seems to have almost nothing to do with the lubricant in Vanagon transmissions.

FYI: It is gonna cost you about $1000 to preemptively fix your transmission. Might be wiser just to get a used one and have it over hauled and swap. Since I was doing a Suby swap, I just had the original done. With some modifications and gear changes I spent close to $1700 on my overhaul. If you wait, it costs more!

I'd leave it until you begin to notice something or need to do some other work like a clutch or axles.
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dredward
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:
Williamtaylor33 wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

here's the failure. Nothing to do with oil but everything to do with those square corners.

YEP!

The square cornered ones break. EVEN the ones with the round cut out fail eventually. The Weddle supplied part is modified and hardened to minimize the issue more. My Rancho rebuild is peppered with several Weddle parts and I hope it to last another 200K.

Rancho ROCKS!!!!!
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John Of the north
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gowesty article on sudden death of transmission
http://gowesty.com/library_article.php?id=117
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vanjoe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The place I get parts from sometimes is just down the street from my house. I do all my own work and I was in there getting some parts and ans started talking with the guy and that is how the subject came up. I only live 30 minutes from Go Westy and usually get most of my stuff from them. I will go with the GW transmission when I am ready. I really want one of their 5 speeds but will never be able to afford it. Crying or Very sad
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Kburns737
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why go with the GW trans? Price seems pretty steep to me and we've all heard the core refund horror stories from that part of the world. Rancho isn't too far away and they seem to do a great job for one of the most reasonable prices out there - thats where I'll be sending my syncro tranny off to hopefully, unless I decide to suffer through rebuilding it myself, Twisted Evil
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a914622
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know there is a huge change between gl5 and gl4.

The toyota dealer put gl4 in my trucks 5 speed. ( should be gl5) IT Took both hands to shift. I changed to redline gl5 and it shifts like the porsche!!

If gl4 is called for use it!!


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r39o
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although this IS a transmission oil thread, I do not want another debate to start. From the FAQ here is a good transmission lube debate already in progress:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=366486

Kiddies, this thread is LOCKED and please continue at the above URL.

Thanks for your understanding.
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