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BYeaton
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:44 pm Post subject: Exhaust for smaller hp engines |
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Hey guys,
I have a 1776, W110 cam, stock flycut heads, dual 40 webers, with an 010 and a 1 1/2" AJ Sims Merged header. Nothing exciting there.
Currently I'm running a Dynamax muffler, typical for a merged set-up, but I don't really like the sound or the appearance as it doesn't route nicely back under the apron like other brands do.
Performance-wise, is there a better alternative for a small hp motor like I have compared to a big stroker that would actually need to breathe through such a large muffler? I have a hard time believing that these turbo style muffler like I have are suited for everything between stock and full tilt big Hp motors. The problem I see is that my system is merged, and the options for merged are pretty slim.
Is a better alternative a quiet pack set-up? Or finding a non vw-specific muffler and having a shop weld me up a nice bent system? I figure if I go to the trouble to have something made, or even purchase something new, I want it to be the best application for my motor.
Opinions? Thanks in advance |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
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mightymouse
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 4220
Location: las vegas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: |
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Sorry but that muffler design is junk and not designed to make any hp at all.
You need a merge/collector for that. Tumble mufflers like the stock design, just kill hp. All the were meant to do was quiet the exhaust note.
_________________
Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.
Thomas Jefferson
Note to EVERYONE.
Know your ZDDP levels or you WILL lose a cam and lifters. |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust for smaller hp engines |
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| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
Performance-wise, is there a better alternative for a small hp motor ... |
http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1634
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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BYeaton
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust for smaller hp engines |
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Thanks, I have seen that set-up and it looks nice. I should probably just call CB and ask them about that product versus others and I'd get a lot of info.
But does that mean that all smaller engines (under 100hp lets say) are running the wrong exhaust if they are using a 2 1/2" or 3" turbo style muffler?
Point is I want to retain my merged header and find a muffler st-up that better suits me motor. That CB product looks to be a very possible lead, are there any other options? |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Exhaust for smaller hp engines |
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| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
But does that mean that all smaller engines (under 100hp lets say) are running the wrong exhaust if they are using a 2 1/2" or 3" turbo style muffler?
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Yes.
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| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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BYeaton
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Interesting. I mean it makes a ton of sense.
Didn't someone used to make a merged single quiet pack? |
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Stripped66
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005
Posts: 3470
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
Interesting. I mean it makes a ton of sense.
Didn't someone used to make a merged single quiet pack? |
Berg does/did. I don't know if they currently carry anything.
_________________
| 66brm wrote: |
| Bodacious wrote: |
| Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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bugnut68
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 4180
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
Interesting. I mean it makes a ton of sense.
Didn't someone used to make a merged single quiet pack? |
Yup, Thunderbird/Pertronix still does. |
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andy198712
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010
Posts: 1209
Location: Cornwall - UK
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| they used to get silly power from a stock exhaust and 1600 engine in the rally cars... |
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torsionbar
Samba Member
Joined: December 11, 2010
Posts: 2215
Location: earf
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| Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Exhaust for smaller hp engines |
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on this subject, does anyone make a merged header like this that works with stock vw heater boxes? some of us can't live without cabin heat... |
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BYeaton
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| bugnut68 wrote: |
| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
Interesting. I mean it makes a ton of sense.
Didn't someone used to make a merged single quiet pack? |
Yup, Thunderbird/Pertronix still does. |
The only thing I can find from them is a standard header/qp system. Doesn't even look like they sell mufflers at all for merged, just a merged header |
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Teeroy 
Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2003
Posts: 3685
Location: Eastern WA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:36 am Post subject: Exhaust for smaller hp engines |
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Kymco has a 1 1/2 merged header with heat and a single quiet muffler
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bugnut68
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 4180
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
Interesting. I mean it makes a ton of sense.
Didn't someone used to make a merged single quiet pack? |
Yup, Thunderbird/Pertronix still does. |
The only thing I can find from them is a standard header/qp system. Doesn't even look like they sell mufflers at all for merged, just a merged header |
http://www.thunderbirdexhaust.com/Competition-Merg...flers-c26/ |
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spencerfvee
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Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:54 am Post subject: |
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you are so very right the salzburg 1600cc rally bugs had a motor that put out 126 hp at 6,000 rpms maximum torque 100 lbft at 5,200 rpms useing 46 ida weber carbs and stock vw muffler(i am sure the muffler was gutted ) a lot of the ralley drivers took that motor past 6,000 to 6,500 rpms when racing spencerfvee.........
| andy198712 wrote: |
| they used to get silly power from a stock exhaust and 1600 engine in the rally cars... |
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BYeaton
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| bugnut68 wrote: |
| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
Interesting. I mean it makes a ton of sense.
Didn't someone used to make a merged single quiet pack? |
Yup, Thunderbird/Pertronix still does. |
The only thing I can find from them is a standard header/qp system. Doesn't even look like they sell mufflers at all for merged, just a merged header |
http://www.thunderbirdexhaust.com/Competition-Merg...flers-c26/ |
Haha, I don't know how I missed that. Thanks.
So that would be a much more desirable muffler to run on a 1776? I would assume that's pretty similar to that CB "small motor" set-up.
I'm not a fan of how far back the CB muffler sits, I like them tucked under for a cleaner look. I'm thinking if this Thunderbird has the same aesthetic, I might have to go with something simple and custom. |
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bugnut68
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2003
Posts: 4180
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
| bugnut68 wrote: |
| EdgeKid3 wrote: |
Interesting. I mean it makes a ton of sense.
Didn't someone used to make a merged single quiet pack? |
Yup, Thunderbird/Pertronix still does. |
The only thing I can find from them is a standard header/qp system. Doesn't even look like they sell mufflers at all for merged, just a merged header |
http://www.thunderbirdexhaust.com/Competition-Merg...flers-c26/ |
Haha, I don't know how I missed that. Thanks.
So that would be a much more desirable muffler to run on a 1776? I would assume that's pretty similar to that CB "small motor" set-up.
I'm not a fan of how far back the CB muffler sits, I like them tucked under for a cleaner look. I'm thinking if this Thunderbird has the same aesthetic, I might have to go with something simple and custom. |
I'm pretty sure the Thunderbird muffler tucks under the body pretty good... but it also depends on the header you mate it up to, as well. Some exhausts may result in a different positioning of the muffler, but I've seen guys that ran the merged single QP muffler and it looked pretty good under there. |
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andy198712
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2010
Posts: 1209
Location: Cornwall - UK
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| spencerfvee wrote: |
you are so very right the salzburg 1600cc rally bugs had a motor that put out 126 hp at 6,000 rpms maximum torque 100 lbft at 5,200 rpms useing 46 ida weber carbs and stock vw muffler(i am sure the muffler was gutted ) a lot of the ralley drivers took that motor past 6,000 to 6,500 rpms when racing spencerfvee.........
| andy198712 wrote: |
| they used to get silly power from a stock exhaust and 1600 engine in the rally cars... |
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quite tempted to run a gutted stock item on my 1955 build, shame it wont have that beetle churp!! |
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BYeaton
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2007
Posts: 362
Location: El Segundo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyone have any pics of the Thunderbird or the CB mounted? |
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special-k
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2008
Posts: 178
Location: Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Look up a "euro dual tuckaway exhaust" they are 1 1/2 with 2 small resonators and baffled tips. They have a nice sound and tuck up nice and tight. I couldn't run my filter/pump with mine though. |
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