Do I need an electric pump?

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

I am trying to guess if I will need an electric pump (with regulator) for my Avenger project. Here are a couple of pictures of my set up:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The tank is custom. The metal line that comes out from the top is a vent line. it goes over the top of the tank toward the front, does a 360 degree loop, and then exits below the vehicle.

The rubber line is 5/16". There is an aluminum line in the tank that goes to the bottom of the tank. It connects to a barbed fitting, through the rubber line, and into a new 5/16 line that enters the tunnel under the battery (the stock location), is run inside the tunnel and exits in the rear at the stock location.

My concern is whether the stock VW pump will be able to pull fuel up through the top mounted supply line. I probably should have designed a bottom mount supply port, and still could possibly have that done, but it might be the same cost as a pump and regulator.

My wiring harness has a circuit for the electric pump (it would be wired through a safety switch) and I could mount the pump in front of the battery with ease.

So....thoughts? Will a stock pump be able to draw the fuel up the tank and to the motor?

66 Shorty · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:48 am Post subject:

I'm no expert, but, I would think it would have a really tough time pulling it through, especially if it's not primed first. Pumps are better "pushers" than "Pullers"...

I like the looks of the set-up you have there! VERY Nice & clean looking!
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BL3Manx · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:17 am Post subject:

That just looks like a scary place for a tank, in front of the front beam. Is there just no way it can be mounted say over the trans?

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

Its a tough to see in this picture but the top of the tranny is right in line with where the body comes down. No room there at all. Any space you think of over the tranny is actually inside the car. I was not going to place it there.

The original design had the tank sitting on top (more or less) of the beam, very similiar to a Buggy. With the firewall mounted pedals placing it there was not an option.

Rohrheim · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:45 am Post subject:

Install your filter and pump as close to the cell as possible. Electric pumps are designed to be pushers. Nice job under the hood

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

My thought was to fabricate a mounting plate that will attach right to the front of the battery holder. Its tough to see but there are 2 horizontal 1" square tubes about 4" apart from eachother. The fuel line is attached to the upper one in the second picture.

LouisB · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:14 am Post subject:

What about an in tank electric pump? You would have to fab up a hanger and figure out a regulator.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-11140/

--louis
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'67 Manx II

Old people at weddings always poke me and say "Your next." So, I started doing the same to them at funerals.

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

Definitely not going to cut into that tank.

manxdavid · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:42 am Post subject:

Stock pump should be fine. Once the fuel's thru to it it will virtually syphon out of the tank, the height of the outlet will not be detrimental in any way.

retterath · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:05 am Post subject:

You can always fit a check valve into the line near the carb(s)If you have issues with the stock pump draining back. Once the pump is primed, I don't forsee any trouble.

dan macmillan · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject:

Yes the stock pump will work fine, almost all other manufactures used a mechanical engine mounted pump that took fuel from the top of the tank for years. Most had farther yo go than you do.
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66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
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bim55 · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject:

I think this is a good question, and I'm not sure??

While the distance from tank to carb is of some concern, I dont see it as a problem here as noted previously.

I think the difference in elevation is more important, at least to gravity anyway. The typical VW fuel is gravity fed to the pump, and then pushed up to the carb? If the tank is lower in your car, you might not have any gravity assist to the mechanical pump? So, maybe??
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BL3Manx · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:03 pm Post subject:

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

didget69 · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject:

The Bradley GT2 has the same setup with a sheetmetal fuel tank in the nose ahead of the beam. I don't see this as being any less safe than having a std Beetle tank above your feet in a buggy & getting into an impact.

If jspbtown wants to appease the crowd here, he can opt to move the battery to the rear of the car so as to remove the 'spark feature'...

And just avoid crashing... Laughing

bnc
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jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

bnc

Avoid crashing.....yes!

I was thinking the same thing. Most buggies have them hanging right out front...and they aren't as well made as this tank.

As a matetr of fact my Speedster had the battery up front with the tank as well:

didget69 · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:47 pm Post subject:

I've been meaning to ask: is the back glass a '65-'66 Mustang fastback item?

That's my first guess...

bnc
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

BL3Manx · Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject:

jspbtown · Samba Member Joined: January 27, 2004 Posts: 5156

bnc,

yes...Mustang fastback rear glass, Corvair front.

BL3Manx,

I had a Sterling. The fuel tank was designed to sit in the back, basically over the tranny like you suggested. It was totally removed from the passenger compartment by the rear bulkhead. Of course it just sat on a couple of brackets bolted through the fiberglass. I could see it easily rupturing in a rear end collision and dripping gas all over a hot exhaust pipe on the motor.

In order to mount it in the back I would litterally have to create a fiberglass wall behind the seats & cut a hole for a large piece of glass so I could see out the rear window. Then of course the tank would be too tall and I wouldn't be able to see out the rear window.


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