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87vanagon
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Joined: October 05, 2010
Posts: 203
Location: Fenton, MI
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 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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I have the large bracket that creates the hinge, the bottom "L" brackets I have but the top support is missing. I figure with the table I can use the paneling as guide.
Thanks for all the help
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Nick
1987 2.1L Vanagon GL- Daily Driver |
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Robw_z
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| 87vanagon wrote: |
| the parts I'm still not quit sure about is the exact position of the latch pins, the upper mounting of the paneling and the table. I know thats quite a bit but I'm in no hurry and will keep searching and asking question till I can get it right. |
The upper mounting of the panel uses a strip of thin steel which forms an upside-down u channel for the plastic panel to slip into. It is riveted onto the van, where the headliner material ends. When attaching the panel the top side is slipped into the channel first, and then you screw in the remaining fasteners. If you do not have this, you're gonna have to wing it. The steel strips are used in Westfalias as well to hold paneling, but the lengths are not correct, however they could still be utilized.
As far as the table, the first step is do you have all the bracketry? I can't recall how much measuring is needed, but there is riveting involved.
-Rob |
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87vanagon
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2010
Posts: 203
Location: Fenton, MI
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I completely agree that having a Carat here would make this process a lot easier, but I don't have that luxury. I have the skills and tools to do some fabrication but I just need some measurements. I have done a bunch of research and know most of what I need to do, the parts I'm still not quit sure about is the exact position of the latch pins, the upper mounting of the paneling and the table. I know thats quite a bit but I'm in no hurry and will keep searching and asking question till I can get it right.
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Nick
1987 2.1L Vanagon GL- Daily Driver |
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SteveVanB
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Joined: June 01, 2008
Posts: 1643
Location: This side of Daytona
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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The Carat rear seat is not as wide as the GL Z-Bed. The pins need to be set back and spaced for the Carat int. I think the pins are in the same spot for and aft in the GL just not as far apart?
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91 CARAT |
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Robw_z
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| 87vanagon wrote: |
So the Carat latch pins sit in a different spot then on the GL, are they forward or back and do you or anyone else have that measurement |
The two bolt holes you see the brackets fit into exist in the GL from the factory. They should be there and all ready for a bolt to thread into them right now, in your van. The bolts you buy at the hardware store need to be the same size and thread pitch as the latch pin, so just bring the latch pin to the hardware store and purchase matching bolts, and nuts which act as spacers and hold the bracket out. You also need a nut to hold the latch pin to the aluminum stock. I am recalling from memory, but I believe the forward most bolt hole is where the original latch pin is sitting in your GL right now.
To go the bracket route, I bought some aluminum stock from a hardware store, measured where the two holes in the factory van were, and drilled the stock to accept two bolts to thread into those holes.
Now, the carat latch pin set approximately 1" back from the original IIRC, but unfortunately I cannot give you that measurement because the brackets I made were for somebody elses van, otherwise I'd go out and measure it for you.
It is also important to note that with more work and some 90 degree bends the brackets could be made to work without having to trim the panels(again, trimming is minimal as is and not visible with the seat back and latched). The trimming is necessary because the bolt heads that hold in the bracket stick out, and rub against the plastic panels. The factory bracket is welded in and does not have these bolt heads sticking out.
The bracket does hold the seat in the same spot and function just as well as the original welded in bracket.
-Rob |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I'm saying if you use the GL latch position with the Carat rear bench it won't work.
Cutting the opening in the plastic panel won't change a thing.
Moving the pin postion must happen to allow the Carat bench to seat into the correct position.
How you do this is up too each van owner.
I cut and weld as I am set up todo so.
I will happily do this for anyone, but I charge for the service.
dylan |
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Robw_z
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| insyncro wrote: |
By thinking you are going to trim the panels is not going to fix the fact that the seat back will be at the wrong position when locked and not comfortable to sit in.
IMHO, there is one way to mount all the Carat seats and panels....the way it was done at the factory.
If you want the Zbed to hinge properly and the side table to latch, I see no other way. |
If you are implying the panels must be trimmed so the latch pin can be positioned differently, you are mistaken. The brackets I made place the latch pin in exactly the same spot as the factory brackets, they just bolt in rather than weld in. The latch pin sticks through the factory hole in the factory panel. The panels must be trimmed because the bolt heads stick out above the vertical face of the bracket. The trimming required is not visible with the seat latched, only with the bed down and even then nobody would notice.
I agree that the factory way is best, but for those without access to welding and cutting tools/skills a bolt on bracket is a fine way to go. I guarantee those brackets latch and set the seat back in exactly the same position as a factory Carat.
-Rob |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Mick Ord wrote: |
I have recently comlpleted a full conversion from westy camper to carat interior. I was lucky enough to find a complete parts van ( engine was blown).
I used all the factory parts etc and copied the exact bracket mouting areas- i cut out all the factory mounts and welded them into my westy.
While this type of converion does not appear too difficult, but is quite involved, i would not want to of done it without a parts/template van to go with.
For sure it could be done without, but would of required a whole load of fabrication and "guess work"- atleast have a carat nearby for reference. |
I couldn't agree more.
I am trying to help on the thread, but don't have time to measure and photograph every inch of the donor Carats I own.
I appreciate someone with similar experience sharing. |
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Mick Ord
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Joined: April 26, 2008
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Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:13 am Post subject: |
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I have recently comlpleted a full conversion from westy camper to carat interior. I was lucky enough to find a complete parts van ( engine was blown).
I used all the factory parts etc and copied the exact bracket mouting areas- i cut out all the factory mounts and welded them into my westy.
While this type of converion does not appear too difficult, but is quite involved, i would not want to of done it without a parts/template van to go with.
For sure it could be done without, but would of required a whole load of fabrication and "guess work"- atleast have a carat nearby for reference.
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1991 Syncro Westy- 2.5 Suby
1989 Syncro Tristar ( sold)
1988 2wd Tristar- about to start resto/rebuild !! |
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SteveVanB
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Joined: June 01, 2008
Posts: 1643
Location: This side of Daytona
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:20 am Post subject: |
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You could always put the panels in and then mark/measure where the holes for the pins are.
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91 CARAT |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:27 am Post subject: |
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By thinking you are going to trim the panels is not going to fix the fact that the seat back will be at the wrong position when locked and not comfortable to sit in.
IMHO, there is one way to mount all the Carat seats and panels....the way it was done at the factory.
If you want the Zbed to hinge properly and the side table to latch, I see no other way. |
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87vanagon
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Joined: October 05, 2010
Posts: 203
Location: Fenton, MI
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: |
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| Robw_z wrote: |
| This is how I solved the latch pin problems. There probably are some better ways as I had to trim the plastic panels a bit to fit around these brackets(if they were more tightly fit and the bolts were countersunk this would not have been necessary). |
So the Carat latch pins sit in a different spot then on the GL, are they forward or back and do you or anyone else have that measurement
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Nick
1987 2.1L Vanagon GL- Daily Driver |
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Robw_z
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Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 882
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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This is how I solved the latch pin problems. There probably are some better ways as I had to trim the plastic panels a bit to fit around these brackets(if they were more tightly fit and the bolts were countersunk this would not have been necessary).
-Rob[/img] |
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jbart
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Joined: February 17, 2011
Posts: 76
Location: sunny Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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I am in the process of adding a table to my '86 L. I should have all the parts soon (my wall panel and some hardware are in Sacramento).
anyway, photos are helpful. if there are other threads with photos, please link up. thanks
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86 Vanagon L (present)
04 Golf TDI
98 Beetle (pile of crap)
96 Jetta
88 Jetta
87 Cabriolet (Karman, best vw I owned)
69 Bus (pile of rust)
68 Squareback (loaned to a buddy in college, never saw it again) |
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simd0ggie
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Joined: April 24, 2008
Posts: 410
Location: College Park, MD
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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I just drew them up and had one of the guys in the shop make them for me. 2.5" round stock. Tapped the whole way, used studs to screw them into the original holes. I also put a rubber piece in there to prevent any future rattles.
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-Matt
'85 Westfalia w/EJ25, '14 Tiguan R-Line 4 Motion
"There are two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery.” |
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87vanagon
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Joined: October 05, 2010
Posts: 203
Location: Fenton, MI
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice, did you fab those or were they something you found somewhere that worked?
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Nick
1987 2.1L Vanagon GL- Daily Driver |
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simd0ggie
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Joined: April 24, 2008
Posts: 410
Location: College Park, MD
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| Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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I missed grabbing the spacers as well...
So here's what I did. Very sturdy, worked great. 1.75" thick.
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-Matt
'85 Westfalia w/EJ25, '14 Tiguan R-Line 4 Motion
"There are two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery.” |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15087
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: |
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FYI: http://www.vanagon.com/info/years/index.htm
All Carat edition vans came with AC standard and all power features.
A true Carat is a 90 or 91 model only.
90 and 91 years also had a Carat Wolfsburg edition available and is best know because it was available in Tornado Red.
The 91 Carat Wolfsburg is the closest USDM van to the Last Limited Edition vans and Hanover Edition vans in Europe.
1991 Carat Wolfsburg Edition
This is a picture of the interior that many would call a Carat, the layout is correct but the van is a 87 Wolfsburg with all dealer options ordered.
How do you tell the difference???
The headliner is too light of a shade to be a true late model Carat van.
Trust me, I know all the little differences and have owned each of these specific models over the years.
If your van or interior parts lack AC pieces it is not from a Carat but from the 1987-1989 Wolfsburg edition vans that had the side table and rear facing seats, but all the power features and AC were options and needed to be ordered at the dealer.
The 89 Wolfsburg has the same layout as the carat but a much different fabric and pattern; diagonal stripes.
It also was the only year that had a factory wired subwoofer in the side table plastic.
I am describing hard top vans, there are numerous campers and a late model Multivan as well.
Some have this same interior layout, but with the westy top they also had a rear cabinet section.
Read Jim's descriptions on Vanagon.com for more specifics.
dylan |
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87vanagon
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Joined: October 05, 2010
Posts: 203
Location: Fenton, MI
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:06 am Post subject: |
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The Krylon Fusion paint is great on plastics, as that is what it is made for. I'll post before and after pics of mine.
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Nick
1987 2.1L Vanagon GL- Daily Driver |
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Wolfagon
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Joined: July 28, 2010
Posts: 30
Location: Brandon, FL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:54 am Post subject: |
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I am getting ready to xo this conversion too. I was thinking about a vinyl rap instead of painting, but I don't know how much that will cost.
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75 Kombi Sportsmobile
86 Vanagon GL with Wolfsburg interior |
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