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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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buildyourown
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2009
Posts: 1668
Location: Seattle
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 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Franklinstower wrote: |
| buildyourown wrote: |
Custom lines are worth it IMO. I found a local place that was very helpful and provided me with a very high quality product.
Ask at your local parts counter, they probably know who does them. |
BYO, who did you find here in the Seattle Area? I found Banjos at Brake and Clutch off Airport way, but they are too thick. I also heard Western Fluid Components might make them, but that is a rumor. |
Pacific Rubber on E Marginal Way. They mainly do rubber lines for trucks, but they had all the stuff for brake lines. |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:33 am Post subject: |
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I'm looking forward to some pics. Does anyone know if I'm facing any challenges running a wider track up front than the rear? So far, I haven't noticed any peculiar handling characteristics, but I also plan on adding lowering springs and Fr/Rr swaybars later, and just wonder if something might crop up then with the odd track mismatch issue.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| I'm looking forward to some pics. Does anyone know if I'm facing any challenges running a wider track up front than the rear? So far, I haven't noticed any peculiar handling characteristics, but I also plan on adding lowering springs and Fr/Rr swaybars later, and just wonder if something might crop up then with the odd track mismatch issue. |
All Vanagon came stock with a 10mm narrower rear trac.
I think the specific answer to your question is up to each individual driver.
I prefer a wider rear trac than the front by about 10mm.
Depending upon my wheelset, I change it all the time as I have slider door extensions on all my vans.
dylan |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:10 am Post subject: |
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At least I'm running staggered rims, so the rears are 13mm wider than the fronts
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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j_dirge
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2007
Posts: 4641
Location: Twain Harte, CA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| I'm looking forward to some pics. Does anyone know if I'm facing any challenges running a wider track up front than the rear? So far, I haven't noticed any peculiar handling characteristics, but I also plan on adding lowering springs and Fr/Rr swaybars later, and just wonder if something might crop up then with the odd track mismatch issue. |
I drove for 6 months with a +16mm wider (2x8mm) than OE front track.. due to Audi disk hats on my G-60 brake mod.
I did not sense any real issues.. but it looked funny.
I have, since then, added 20mm (2x10mm) to the rear in the form of typical aluminum spacer. ET37 wheel, 225 tire on 7.5" rim.
Looks better, handles not noticeably different.
I will be adding a rear sway bar in the next yr. I am fairly confident that will be a much greater handling improvement than a couple mms either way in width of rear track... but there will be a couple other variables tossed in there to make it even more of a guess (16" trailing arms)... So we shall see. One step at a time.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.
-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5
| danfromsyr wrote: |
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:32 am Post subject: |
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....This looks like a great way to add big front brakes, I've got the parts on order. As a side note, if you are getting your hubs machined already you might want to have them turned down to the Audi/ Passat wheel size so you can put those wheels on without cutting the centers, the bearing caps need to be turned too. I had shown how to do this in another post.
Andrew- |
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a914622
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 840
Location: Westend of HWY2 , Wash
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Post the pics, post the pics!! 
_________________
87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru |
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buspor63
Samba Member
Joined: February 17, 2005
Posts: 1179
Location: Knoxville,TN Where America stops for gas
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Franklinstower wrote: |
| The Jaguar Rotors - 284 x 24.2 - Brembo Number: 09.3825.10 center perfectly within the caliper and require no spacers between the caliper and mount. All they required to fit is enlarging the lug bolt holes on the rotors slighlty beyond 14 mm - something like 37/64" should do it. |
DANG IT!!! I went to the local Pull A Part, got the calipers of of a Jag XJS and left the disc there, thinking I could'nt use them......I hope they are still there when I can go back........yep, I'll use "used" disc till I know it's gonna work out.
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Imagine that, theres not an "h" in either Westfalia or Syncro? |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2672
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:29 am Post subject: |
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.....I don't know if that "post the pics" was directed toward me or not but here is the link.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...ing+wheels
It looks like that rotor could take place of the spacer I show depending on how thick it is, that would be cool. If you need any spacers, lugs, or adapters please send your business to Loogy who has given us more free advice than anyone here on that subject.
Andrew- |
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whafalia
Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2009
Posts: 685
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Is it silly to ask if these brakes would work on an 84 front end? |
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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: |
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here are some picts of the jag rotor and jag caliper bolted up together with no spacers between the caliper and mount.
You can see that the rotor is almost perfectly centered in the caliper. A perfectionist could always shim it to a few 100ths with a shim kit.
Using my droid camera made it difficult to get a good pict showing the spacing on both sides of the rotor, but I can assure you it was very close to being perfectly centered.
When Zeitgeist used the eurovan rotors, he said he spaced the caliper out 4.5 mm to center on the rotor. Then had to add another 5 mm spacer between the rotor and wheel for clearance. So this method of using the Jag rotor should reduce the total offset by at a minimum of 3.5mm and maybe as much 5-8 depending what kind of 16" Or larger rim you use. I have not test fit for 15" rims yet.
The Jag rotor is 284mm in diameter, and there is room for a larger rotor probably up to 292 or 294, but I have yet to find one with the correct back spacing to eliminate shimming the caliper out. I think there will be still a 1-2mm of pad not in contact with the rotor as pointed out by casey.
This still requires some grinding to get a banjo to clear the mounting tabs. But maybe a little less grinding than showed in Zeitgeist's photos.
Also remember if you go this route, Jag bolt pattern is not 5 x 112 - it is 5 x 111.12 and the lug holes are small. If you drill them out to 37/64ths, or 19/32nds, the lug bolts should fit. I drilled my test rotor out to 9/16ths and it was real tight getting the lug bolts in.
Paul
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
'75 Miami Blue Sunroof FI Standard Bug |
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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wouldn't this be a nice time to make a upgrade to front studs?
many have gone with a screw in stud, Loogy as well as 034motorsport.com sells them. set in with HD loctite and no more balancing tires on your toes.
or should just have to drill out the stock threads to "??" seat the front studs ala Syncro or bay bus?
and to offer a brake rotor retaining idea, instead of drilling a set screw like VW uses on the Eurovan. how about a FORD style retaining clip?
like these: http://www.autoclinix.com/Mercury/RBrakes5.jpg
seems easy peasy.
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
and to offer a brake rotor retaining idea, instead of drilling a set screw like VW uses on the Eurovan. how about a FORD style retaining clip?
like these: http://www.autoclinix.com/Mercury/RBrakes5.jpg
seems easy peasy. |
Do those go on every stud? Don't they sort of make the rim sit funny on the hub--like little micro-spacers? I've never seen that method of rotor containment, but it seems promising.
Paul, what's the dimension for the center of the Jaguar rotor, and how does it fit over the Vanagon bearing snout part of the hub?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| whafalia wrote: |
| Is it silly to ask if these brakes would work on an 84 front end? |
Don't know for sure, but I'd guess you'd need to do 2 things first:
At least a 15" wheel, and maybe 16".
And a spindle off an 86 or later van.
And yes it's silly to ask. 
Kidding!
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One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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No, just 1 or 2 and it might be a steel rim thing, i can see your concern for alum rims to seat flat. but they used them on many/most fords in the 80s that I fiddled with.
they sell them on the spinny rack @ Napa.
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| danfromsyr wrote: |
and to offer a brake rotor retaining idea, instead of drilling a set screw like VW uses on the Eurovan. how about a FORD style retaining clip?
like these: http://www.autoclinix.com/Mercury/RBrakes5.jpg
seems easy peasy. |
Do those go on every stud? Don't they sort of make the rim sit funny on the hub--like little micro-spacers? I've never seen that method of rotor containment, but it seems promising.
Paul, what's the dimension for the center of the Jaguar rotor, and how does it fit over the Vanagon bearing snout part of the hub? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I wanted to post this link to a Jag wheel bolt pattern website as I'm a bit confused on the lug bolt pattern..
could we get an image of the Jag rotor on the vanagon hub and possibly a verification of the lug measurements?
Also what exact model & year are we talking for here on parts?93?94?
it's been quoted in here as 5x111.3 or such, but I haven't found those values anyplace yet.
http://www.discountedwheelwarehouse.com/Jaguar___Vehicle_Bolt_Pattern_Reference.cfm
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
Last edited by danfromsyr on Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Christopher Schimke
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Joined: August 03, 2005
Posts: 5391
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| danfromsyr wrote: |
I wanted to post this link to a Jag wheel bolt pattern website as I'm a bit confused on the lug bolt pattern..
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The wheel bolt pattern of the Jaguar that those rotors are off of is 5x4.75 but the rotor is bolted to the back side of the hub on the Jaguar and therefore has it's own bolt pattern that has no relationship to the wheels.
_________________
"Sometimes you have to build a box to think outside of." - Bruce (not Springsteen)
*Custom wheel hardware for Audi/VW, Porsche and Mercedes wheels - Urethane Suspension Bushings*
T3Technique.com or contact me at [email protected] |
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a914622
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2004
Posts: 840
Location: Westend of HWY2 , Wash
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Great work
The pics dont show how good the fit is. I spent hours fitting the Lexus ls400 brakes to the front of my vanagon. This jag set up is as close to a bolt and go as i have seen. and the parts are cheap. The rotor does need a centering ring but there is a lot of room in there for that.
crazy!!
jcl
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87 gl powerd buy 2.5subaru
75 914 getting 2.2t subaru scratch that SVX subaru |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| a914622 wrote: |
Great work
The pics dont show how good the fit is. I spent hours fitting the Lexus ls400 brakes to the front of my vanagon. This jag set up is as close to a bolt and go as i have seen. and the parts are cheap. The rotor does need a centering ring but there is a lot of room in there for that.
crazy!!
jcl |
Yeah, that's what attracted me to this approach.
Do you think Paul could avoid the centering ring by having his hubs closely machined to just fit the inside of the Jag rotor hat? My EV rotors are a very tight fit with the 144mm machined hubs.
Casey
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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