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215/60-16 or 215/65-16 with EJ22 / 4 speed
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Which size tire to use?
215/60-16
37%
 37%  [ 11 ]
215/65-16
62%
 62%  [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 29

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r39o
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: 215/60-16 or 215/65-16 with EJ22 / 4 speed Reply with quote

I finally have enough good CLK wheels (16x7 ET37.) Time for tires. I have a Subaru EJ22 with 4 speed and 0.82 4th gear. This is in a 1990 pop top Multivan.

Now it is a choice of tires:

215/65-16 (tire of choice is the Yokohama Geolander ATS, if I can find some)

215/60-16 (looking at Sumitomo HTR A/S P01 maybe)

NOTE:
185R14 = 25.65 in diameter +0%
215/60-16 = 26.15 in diameter +2%
215/65-16 = 27 in diameter +5%

I am just too bewildered by choices to pull the trigger.

Help me!
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levi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that .82 the stock 4th gear size?

I also have the clk, stock 4 speed, in a heavy westy, with nokian 195-75, (just under 7%), and I love it for around-town driving.
Pretty heavy hit when I come up to mountains though.

If I had to deal with a lot of mountain driving I might not want to go with the 5%, I dunno.

How about you get 2 of the 2% tires, 2 of the 5% tires, and try switching them front to back? Smile
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r39o
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

levi wrote:
Is that .82 the stock 4th gear size?

NO. It is about 3% less. Stock US 4 speed is .85.

levi wrote:
I also have the clk, stock 4 speed, in a heavy westy, with nokian 195-75, (just under 7%), and I love it for around-town driving.
Pretty heavy hit when I come up to mountains though.

You are at 27.5 inches or about 6.7% bigger

levi wrote:
If I had to deal with a lot of mountain driving I might not want to go with the 5%, I dunno.

I do not have a lot of mountain driving. Only every now and then to we go up the mountains. But, unlike LV, SD does have some hills and ups/downs of a few hundred feet here and there as a normal course of driving, even on freeways.

levi wrote:
How about you get 2 of the 2% tires, 2 of the 5% tires, and try switching them front to back? Smile

That is a tough one.

I am thinking of running a set of stock tires for a while before I stick the bigger brakes on, at first, to test, though.

It is tough to ignore the bright (smiling faces of the) CLK rims, though.

So am I looking at an 8% difference for 4th gear or 5% x 3% = 15%????
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1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

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levi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

umphh.... already at +3%

I know that I would definitely not want to be running at more than 8%, unless I lived in Kansas, or really liked winging it out in 3rd in the mountains.

3% and another 2% for tires. 6% sounds pretty sweet, if it's compounded like that? I'm not a gear head.
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D Clymer
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go for the 215/60s. I just think it's a better looking tire size and you won't run the risk of over-gearing the van. With a 4 speed you don't have the luxury of making the top gear only a cruising gear. It's important to still be able to conquer freeway grades in 4th.

David
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brent239
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree no hills, 65's
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Franklinstower
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 215/60/16 for my winter wheels and 215/70/16 for my summer wheels, After the switch for the winter driving, I really noticed the tire size difference - stock gearing. Makes want to dump the 215/70/16's even though they are brand new and get 215/65/16 for my summer driving.

Paul
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r39o
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Franklinstower wrote:
I have 215/60/16 for my winter wheels and 215/70/16 for my summer wheels, After the switch for the winter driving, I really noticed the tire size difference - stock gearing. Makes want to dump the 215/70/16's even though they are brand new and get 215/65/16 for my summer driving.

Paul

215/70-16 is 8%
215/65-16 is 5%
215/60-16 is 2%

So do tell what is pointing you towards this decision? In other words, it seems you have too little and too big. What about hills? Freeway? Stop signs? The jumps between sizes is not that great, it seems just by inspection. Power differences? OR?????

I am asking because I drove a lightly loaded EJ22 van up a fairly steep incline for a good half mile with 27.5 inch tires (8.5%) and it pulled up the hill at 50 mph just fine. I did not want to go above the posted speed limit much. It had more go left, too. But, it was not loaded at all.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)
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Franklinstower
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, I definately notice it in the power/torque. I have to grab third earlier on hills with the bigger tires, I notice it when ever I have a big load, it seems I need to hold gears longer with higher rpms. the only time I see/feel the benefit of the larger tires is on a long cruise with a tailwind and no ranges to cross. But the 215/60's seem like I am leaving a little bit. Like the perfect match would be the 215/65's. don't know about the .82 fourth though. doesn't that make a big leap from 3rd to 4th? Still the ej22 has plenty of power and rpms to push up the biggest grades in 3 rd at 65 with either combo. with that fourth of yours, I think I would want the 215/60's. It keeps your speedo right on too! Face it Walt, you need a 5 speed!

Paul
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r39o
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Franklinstower wrote:
doesn't that make a big leap from 3rd to 4th?

3% .85 (stock) vs. .82.

I know a 5 speed would be better. Every thing else I own has more gears. (Except my old 1959 Mercedes with 120hp and it just wants 4th gear all the time.....that car is not for practical uses.) I am afraid of the 5 speeds due to the parts situation. Not standard in the US translates to problems and not to forget cost. I am eying a Syncro transmission with LLSD so I still can play musical gears next season or two.

For practical consideration is the fact that I have two propane tanks waiting for it. I want a Propex heater. Dual AC is waiting as parts right now. I am wanting a mini bar with frig and sink where the jump seat is behind the driver. So the weight is going to go up, especially with kids, beer, sails, camping gear and so on.

I certainly do not want to be grabbing for 3rd too much going up hills, frequently, for sure.

The big problem is the tires that are on now are old and one leaks. They are not safe. They are aged out. Too old. I have to buy tires. I have no choice.

Like everybody, I want to make the right (best compromise) choice once. I can buy the 215/60 tires for $70 each right now. So that is $350 with the spare plus tax and mounting. So I am guessing that is going to be right up to $500. Nobody wants to make a $500 mistake. Hence this thread.

THANKS!
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)
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70coupyel
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 27'' tall on CLK's and stock 1.9. Go for the 27 '' tall tires. Shorter 4 th gear and a little bit taller tire? I guess it comes down to getting a good pull on the hills or a nice freeway ride.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

70coupyel wrote:
I have 27'' tall on CLK's and stock 1.9. Go for the 27 '' tall tires. Shorter 4 th gear and a little bit taller tire? I guess it comes down to getting a good pull on the hills or a nice freeway ride.

You are in So Cali like me. How do those tires work out in general? Like say going to Big Bear or maybe up 15 to the high desert?

I know the 1.9 pulls OK, but really has to huff and puff. My 1.9 automatic just goes and goes, but I do not like spinning up like a Subaru.

With my gearing and 27 inch tires I would be turning 2500 rpm in 4th at 50 mph. So I have to wind it up a bit. As above 65 in 3rd is not a problem, but it winds the engine up good. The EJ22 can do it. Not sure my family would appreciate the music the engine would produce doing it.

This is maddening! I am going to borrow, if I can, a set of big wheels my buddy has mounted. Nice Audi wheels, not sure what tire size. Proof is in the pudding. I have less than 2 months before the Classic and I want to drive there in MY VAN....
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1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)
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DubNuts
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running a Subi in my 87 Westy with a .77 4th gear on CLK's and a set of Sumitomo's 215x60x16 tires. The tires are close to the orginal tires height so my speedo is still faily accruate. I like the setup, and although I have no Big Bear, or Monmoth in my area to climb the Van does pull well for the hill climbs I encounter with very little down shifting to maintain speed. The Subi has plenty of balls to power throgh it. I can cruise at 60MPH @ about 2700 RPM's. I would tend to think that the taller the tire the more down shifting one would have to do to maintaine speed.
Actually getting ready to pull the trans again to upgrade the pumkin to a LSD, and seriously considering going to a Weddle .70 4th, but then I would probably have to down shift more offten so perhaps I'll leave the Happy .77 4th alone.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DubNuts,

What kind of driving are you doing?

Which Suby do you have?

I need some comparisons.

I am leaning towards the smaller tire to be safe. Plus at $70 each it doesn't hurt so much....
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)
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EvilDNA
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you trying to find a tire to match as closely as possible the original rolling diameter? I'm running 215/55/16's on my 1990 Multivan and read somewhere on the Samba that those specs were as close to original rolling diameter as possible. An online tire comparison chart seemed to support that claim as well. However, I'm running a stock 2.1, so I don't know how that affects the issue.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilDNA wrote:
Are you trying to find a tire to match as closely as possible the original rolling diameter?

NO.

I am trying to decide what the biggest 215/xx=16 I can "reasonably" get away with, for my set up.

For the Suby crowd it is kinda a given that is what is sought after, it seems.

I want to cruise with the lower rpms of the 65, if it is "reasonable" to do so given my configuration.

I have a 1990 Multivan too, but as above with an EJ22 and a .82 4th which is 3% lower than stock.

I am sure the 215/60 will work. Your 215/55 is not on my radar. I find the smaller the aspect ratio the harder it is to find a correct load rated tire. I have a few correct target load rated tires in the 60 and 65 series that I know of. These are 98 and 99 some of which are XL, no RF, but it seems not to be much of an issue as long as I stay towards minivan / all season and not passenger car tires.

The above is the reasoning for the thread.
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1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)
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EvilDNA
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah . . . makes sense. When I found the 215\55\16's w/ the XL and higher load rating, I stopped at that. This whole tire thing makes my head spin, pun intended.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:
DubNuts,

What kind of driving are you doing?

Which Suby do you have?

I need some comparisons.

I am leaning towards the smaller tire to be safe. Plus at $70 each it doesn't hurt so much....


I recently switched to the Sumito's 215/60/16 from a set of Conti 225/55/16 both sets of tires are in around the same weight class and height. Although I don't have alot of miles on the Sumito's I do feel better road control, and seems like less tire roll. So far I like them, certinly liked the price.
My rig is a 1987 Full Westy lowered with a Subie 2.5 SOHC and 4speed manual with a .77 4th and tire air set about 38 Psi. It's not a daily driver and mostly used Spring - Fall camping trips / enjoyment etc. Can't say I noticed any real difference in fuel savings, hell with these gas prices climbing I'm finding myself real happy that I installed the .77 4th gear. Average mpg in full camping mode, "full fuel, and water tanks etc" is about 21-23 usually a little better if soley Highway. I'm not an aggresive driver but no slouch either my normal Highway cruising speed is normally what the speed limit is posted as, plus a few extra MPH just because. Bassically keeping up with traffice and normally passing, not being passed. Also no constant hill grades to climb, mostly small stuff on the Right Coast. Summer driving and time will better tell.

WoW @ $70.00 per tire for the Sumitomo's 215/60/16XL is a great price. I just paid like $85.00 each who's selling them at such a great price I need another set for another Vanagon project. Then again money is always an issue.
Good Luck. & keep us posted. J
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really appreciate being able to read this thread- I'm going to get a pair of 215/60r16's and put them on the back and see how well the little n/a diesel does with them in mixed highway and mountain driving. If I think it could handle more, I'll move the 60's to the front and put 215 65's on the back. I don't think there would be a problem mixing diameters in that range on a 2wd that can't go over 65 mph anyway...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your welcome to try out my 215/75/15's which are almost identical in diameter to the 65's you are looking at. I think you will be happy with that size as mine does just fine on the freeway or hills my rig is probably heavier being a full westy. My only complaint is that first gear is too high.
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