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wyomingresident
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:20 am    Post subject: Gas tank reseal questions... Reply with quote

Tomorrow I'm going to perform my third #%$%^^&* gas tank reseal.

The previous two times- no go- still over flow from the top of the tank somehow.

So...

I'm going to slather this stuff on my hose connections. This pic is from the www.kayakwesty.com site- lots of good stuff there. But anyway, can I put a pile of this goop all over the filler tube entrance to the tank to prevent leaks down the road? I'm wanting to pile this stuff everywhere there is a connection.

Thoughts?

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pioneer1
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it resistant to gasoline or will it just dissolve into your tank as it gels?
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wyomingresident
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This stuff is gasoline resistant.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What size is the filler pipe opening?


Neil.
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wyomingresident
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plastic tube. I have the correct seals.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wyomingresident wrote:
plastic tube. I have the correct seals.


cool.

Wondered because metal filler on my tank is close to frame. I suspect that over time this stressed/misaligned the grommet at filler neck/tank causing a leak.

edit: just a thought. Make sure you have the cross over tube routed right. Not sure it's even possible, but if it was being pushed out of alignment by e-brake cable or ? this might cause the grommet(s) to leak. This might not show up right away, but over time using the e-brake....

Neil.

Shot of my '81 crossover, tank partially lowered. You can see how the e-brake cable might push on crossover if crossover installed below cable etc.

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wyomingresident
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^Excellent shot. I think the incorrect routing of my crossover tubes is the problem.
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Inlet
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did mine yesterday, what a pain, today I feel like what an MMA fighter must feel like the day after a fight.

It was a major hassle trying to get the tank back into place
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wyomingresident wrote:
^^^Excellent shot. I think the incorrect routing of my crossover tubes is the problem.


Thanks.

It's now become a "bad" habit, but I take, and post, pics when possible.

Since my first reseal effort leaked 1-2 years later, I too considered using sealant to ensure no leaks. My recent tank reseal, with more attention to detail

i.e. https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/MiscVanagonWestyPics#5548117966935209506

and
https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/GasTank#5555870347121322610

now sees me with a leak free tank. I did not use any sealant. Not saying you shouldn't, just what I did.


Neil.
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wyomingresident
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you don't mind me snagging this pic from your [most excellent] web page:

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Great info! Thanks again!
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wyomingresident wrote:
I hope you don't mind me snagging this pic from your [most excellent] web page:



Great info! Thanks again!


No problem and thanks. Can't believe that old googlepages site still works. Kudos to Google for transferring most of the info from old site to new.

I would suggest NOT using cable ties as shown in image. IMO, these potentially allow a leak between hose and nipple. I used clamps this time.

Neil.
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MootPoint
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just completed (well, almost) my reseal on Friday (then it started to snow - in May? - so I still have to hook up the driver's side expansion tank.

Couple thoughts:

I found it really handy to have a floor jack available to help lift the tank back in place. A short 4x4 under the tank helped spread the force.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think KayakWesty has the two hose sizes backwards in one step. The 1/4" hoses are coming off the top front; the 3/8" hoses are the feed and return lines (not the opposite as he says in the photo).

I had to cut the plastic line from the top of the drivers side expansion tank in order to get it off. However, VW doesn't give ANY spare length on that line - not a millimeter - so it wasn't long enough to hook back up and I had to fashion an extension for it... but it was too tight a fit for the hose clamps so I had to re-fashion one with the hose coming out of the top running forward instead of over the top to the rear. Trying to make this work took almost as much time as the rest of the reseal project. PITA. Then it started to snow. As soon as it warms up a bit (tomorrow) I'll finish that up.

Tip: Use a heat gun to warm the plastic tubing and it will slip back onto the top of the expansion tank much easier.

Kayakwesty recommend ramps. I couldn't agree more. I picked up a set at PepBoys for $50 (rated to 12K#) and they were great. And since I have a gravel driveway I used a piece of OSB under the van to have a smooth place to lie and a non-gravel surface where I could actually find where I dropped the bolt and washer for a change.

All in all, except for the PITA expansion tank hose, the project took just about the 5 hours that Kayakwesty predicted and was a LOT easier than I expected.

Hope this helps.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MootPoint wrote:


I had to cut the plastic line from the top of the drivers side expansion tank in order to get it off. However, VW doesn't give ANY spare length on that line - not a millimeter - so it wasn't long enough to hook back up and I had to fashion an extension for it... but it was too tight a fit for the hose clamps so I had to re-fashion one with the hose coming out of the top running forward instead of over the top to the rear. Trying to make this work took almost as much time as the rest of the reseal project. PITA. Then it started to snow. As soon as it warms up a bit (tomorrow) I'll finish that up.

Tip: Use a heat gun to warm the plastic tubing and it will slip back onto the top of the expansion tank much easier.




The black nylon hose is used elsewhere on a Vanagon. If one has spare hose, I bet installing a new piece(s) at "T" easy with tank out. This would offer a chance to inspect this "T" (it's old so handle it carefully. Maybe a FLAPS has one?).

Great tip on heat to help slip this hose on. I assume plastic contracts as it cools?

I too found there was little or no room to use clamps and fuel hose to transition from roll over valve to EVAP hose. Last time I made it fit, but in hindsight feel that's a bad idea. This likely puts pressure on the valve possibly causing a poor seat in grommet (potential leak) and/or pressure on valve nipple. Trying to recall what I did, but IIRC, in spite of having cut the hose, I found there was enough slack to refit black hose to valve. It's possible I used cable straps with fuel hose to black hose.

In hindsight, I would suggest that if at all possible, find a way to use penetrating spray or other lube to help ease that valve out of the expansion tank. Easier said than done I know, but for the newb, this would be something to take time doing carefully.

Van-cafe has the valve and grommet.

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/smartlist_293/fuel_tank_reseal_parts.html

Neil.
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50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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MootPoint
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:

The black nylon hose is used elsewhere on a Vanagon. If one has spare hose, I bet installing a new piece(s) at "T" easy with tank out. This would offer a chance to inspect this "T" (it's old so handle it carefully. Maybe a FLAPS has one?).


I didn't know what to do with the evap hose, as I wasn't sure about the material. Is that a standard FLAPS item? I don't see it on the VC or GW sites.

The hose does appear to contract upon cooling off from the heat gun.

I didn't consider replacing the roll over valve. Do they wear out? How do you know? By being handed the FAIL notice from the smog guy?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MootPoint wrote:
Vanagon Nut wrote:

The black nylon hose is used elsewhere on a Vanagon. If one has spare hose, I bet installing a new piece(s) at "T" easy with tank out. This would offer a chance to inspect this "T" (it's old so handle it carefully. Maybe a FLAPS has one?).


I didn't know what to do with the evap hose, as I wasn't sure about the material. Is that a standard FLAPS item? I don't see it on the VC or GW sites.

The hose does appear to contract upon cooling off from the heat gun.

I didn't consider replacing the roll over valve. Do they wear out? How do you know? By being handed the FAIL notice from the smog guy?


Meant: "if one has spare hose from another Vanagon" Was suggesting that if "T" broke, a FLAPS may have that size "T". I have read elsewhere of that part failing due to age edit: and handling (cutting off nylon hose)

No. "FAIL" notice not handed to me by smog guy. Wink Bentley describes test for roll over valve P. 20.27

Offered source of new valve in case one broke nipple off while trying to remove from expansion tank. As you wrote, one could cut the black nylon hose.

I recall now what I did. I just slipped a piece of fuel hose over the nylon hose and valve nipple. It was a tight fit. The logic being that there shouldn't be much, if any, pressure in the EVAP system (if it's working right) and the original nylon hose was a slip fit. Finding a sweet spot for that transition to fit in the stock position, and allow expansion tank to seat was not easy but AFAIK, it fit with little to no pressure on valve.
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50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

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https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vanagon Nut wrote:

I recall now what I did. I just slipped a piece of fuel hose over the nylon hose and valve nipple. It was a tight fit. The logic being that there shouldn't be much, if any, pressure in the EVAP system (if it's working right) and the original nylon hose was a slip fit. Finding a sweet spot for that transition to fit in the stock position, and allow expansion tank to seat was not easy but AFAIK, it fit with little to no pressure on valve.

That's exactly what I am planning to do tomorrow once it warms up again. I clipped some of the other nylon hose - where it headed toward the T - and will install it on the evap tank valve nipple and then use a piece of gas line to get it down and over to the original line. Since it will be coming off the front of the tank and in harm's way from tire debris (and not out the back were it gets some protection) I think a heavier hose is a good idea there anyway.

Thanks for the help.
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just replaced my fuel tank, crossover tube and the expansion tank and charcoal canister hoses on my Westy. I used standard fuel line from the FLAPS to replace ALL of the black plastic hose. It's a bunch. If I recall it's something like 10-12 feet of hose. It has been working great. The expansion tanks are snug, and there doesn't seem to be undue pressure on the roll-over valve from the increased diameter tubing on top. There's no room to spare, though.

mootpoint wrote:
I found it really handy to have a floor jack available to help lift the tank back in place. A short 4x4 under the tank helped spread the force.


X2. Definitely do this. SUPER easy this way.

Also, I mounted the crossover tube in the hook that is bolted onto my underbody. I ran it over the e-brake, coolant pipes, etc. I left the plastic nipples of the crossover tube out of the tank until it was lifted and mounted into position. I then reached into each wheel well and pushed the plastic nipples into the grommets on the tank.

I used a gasoline-resistant sealant on each grommet on the tank where the rubber touches the tank, and on the fuel sending unit rubber seal as well. I used it VERY sparingly, and I made sure that no excess was squeezed anywhere into the inside of the tank when the grommets were put in place.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure to route the breather tube correctly, this seems to be a big problem. I just did my seals too, and I didn't do it correctly the first time, had to go back in and route the breather tube the right way. I hope that it works out this time.

Using ramps for this project rocks, although on my second go round I didn't have access to them and I figured it out. If you didn't route the breather tubes right the first time, you dont have to empty your tank. What I did was remove the straps with a jack underneath the tank, and lowered the tank until i could reach my hand up and re-route the breather tube. This was done through two access parts, behind the passenger wheel, and from the behind the tank.

yeah pain of a project, what do I do with my crap fuel that I cleaned out of the tank? I am in a city now, but I am used to just using it a bon fire starter fluid where I am from. Tank wasn't dirty but I forgot to clean the drain bucket, duh! at 4 bucks a gallon.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

small amounts of clean old fuel can be mixed with new fuel & burned - esp. good if you do it in a vehicle you don't care about
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MootPoint wrote:

.... I clipped some of the other nylon hose - where it headed toward the T - and will install it on the evap tank valve nipple and then use a piece of gas line to get it down and over to the original line.


Pretty sure I didn't do it that way but IMO makes more sense than attaching fuel hose to valve then nylon from there.

I think I posted this pic already elsewhere, but for anyone doing this, make sure you don't pinch the black nylon hose between frame and tank. IIRC, this happened b/c I was tugging on hose working on the transition from rollover valve. (edit: on my first tank reseal effort)

Neil.

(p-side of 1981 model. Not sure if body work detail same for all MY)

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1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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