Another new engine teardown, now with glittery oil.

[Sigurd]

Background: I was messing with pinions and shims to try and get rid of my timing scatter, when I dropped the whole pack of four into the case. I figured that while I had it open, I would experiment with different brass gears as well.

I drained the oil last night and it was still green (Brad Penn), but when I shined my light into the pan, I saw glitter . It's hard to capture in a picture, but here's two times that I stirred it up.

This engine has about 150 miles on it.
1915
120 cam / 1.25 Scat rockers
Udo lifters
Brad Penn
The engine had not been tuned yet. My fault.

I haven't gotten the pulley off, but I will have the case apart later today to confirm where the metal is coming form. It looks like brass. I am suspecting that the rich condition washed the cylinders and scraped the rings away.

What's your take on it?

[Dougy Dee]

Are the specks magnetic? Rings aren't brass.

If it is brass you probably dislodged some brass bits from the crank gear when screwing around with it. Changing the gear but left pieces in the case. Or the drive pinion was tight and you had to tap/force the pinion to seat. Anyway unless the brass gear is damaged (shine light down dizzy drive hole and check) I wouldn't rush to tear it down just yet.

Pull the oil pump and look for scoring. Is there crap on your sump plate.
Cut open your oil filter and see what's there. Your FF system should have caught the floaters.

Is it magnetic? We've had some issue with the SCAT rockers and metallic smear in the oil. When tore down the only issue we found was wear on the thrust side of the rockers and shims. Unless they were real smooth to begin with they will eat themselves away. The old SCAT rockers were nicer than the new version.

Anyway, take a deep breath before you go ripping and ramming as you've got the right recipe posted for a decent combination.

[baked beetle]

Is that synthetic Brad Penn or a break in oil?

why aren't you expecting to see anything like that? It only has a 150 miles on it
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[Sigurd]

I have not removed the oil pump yet because I can't get the pulley off. Sump is not off yet either. I'm not using a screen. The magnetic drain plug did have some swarf on it. The stuff in the drained oil is not magnetic. Yes, I probably chipped the brass gear with all the pinion-swapping, but not THAT much, right? I do still have to split it to get the shims out.

[doghouserepair]

what you see in your oil is NEVER all that was in the engine.
Of course you should split it and clean it, right down to the oil galleys, the oil cooler, the oil lines...everywhere you can.
Unless that is you are willing to risk that those little particles won't grow like pearls in an oyster on your rod or main bearings.
When it's apart you'll find the cause.

[Mooosman]

Has the engine lost oil pressure?

Are the particles brass or aluminum colored?


I had an aluminum pushrod rub on the inside of a pushrod tube one time. It ended up rubbing off a bunch of aluminum specks that showed up when I drained the oil.


Might be something to check on your engine
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[craigman]

People have this idea that because Jake brought the whole brad penn idea to the world that it's the miracle oil.
Fact is, their has been several cases where people have had very bad experiences with brad penn.
But, who knows how these people put their engines together. User error is usually the problem.
Like mentioned earlier, take the motor completely apart, and clean, clean, and clean some more. Then inspect everything very well and let us know what you find.
Hopefully we here on the forum can help you figure it out.
Good luck man!

[Sigurd]

The case will be split when I get back home tonight. The particles are yellow-brassy colored. I might cut the filter open too. We'll see.

The engine did not lose oil pressure. Pressure was fine at 40psi cold idle with 30W and a 26mm pump. I'm not blaming the oil, or anything for that matter, yet.

[craigman]

Glad to hear your gonna tear into it.
Be sure to take pics and let us know what you find.
Good luck man!

[Sigurd]

[AlteWagen]

did you use a new or used brass crank gear? The last few engines ive built I used new gears and had the same glitter in the oil for at LEAST 3 changes before it slowly went away. The first engine really freaked me out and I broke it down to investigate. I could see wear marks on the gear but all else looked fine. Put it back together and no more glitter. I guess the new gears have to break in a bit before they work harden.

Now I only use good used german gears.

Wondering if the oil does have something to do with it. In the trans oil thread the syncros are breaking down due to modern oil formulas, could it be the same with engine oils?

[Sigurd]

I believe it was new. It had no wear on it and was still a nice bright, shiny color. All four of my pinions, one new and three used, have play with this gear, regardless of the amount of pinion shims used. That leaves about 5-6 degrees of scatter on the timing light. That was what the original plan was; fix the scatter. The teardown happened as a result of me dropping the shims. I am borrowing a few original gears to install to see if I can get any of them to play nice with any of the pinions. I'm leaving the oil out of this for now until I see the cam and lifters.

[AlteWagen]

remember to set up the pinion with the case split this time.

[neil68]

[oarse]

That looks about normal to me too. First oil change on a fresh build always has some metal in it (shimmery look to it, not chunks )

Did you do an oil change after the initial cam break-in? I don't know what others are going to say in regards to this, but I always change the oil after breaking in the cam (before actually driving the vehicle.) It's the first thing I do after breaking in the cam. That way I'm not driving/running the engine with that crap in the oil. I then do another oil change at 500 miles (1000 if the oil looks really clean or I'm lazy.) Then go on to routine maintenance from there.

[Sigurd]

Yes, I changed it after the 20 minute break-in. I did it one other time last year, probably at the 100 mile mark. I can't account for the other four quarts, but I've gone through an entire case of 30W break-in oil.

Pulled the oil pump out and found three of the shims.

[Jake Raby]

[mcmscott]

[quote="Sigurd"]Yes, I changed it after the 20 minute break-in. I did it one other time last year, probably at the 100 mile mark. I can't account for the other four quarts, but I've gone through an entire case of 30W break-in oil.

Pulled the oil pump out and found three of the shims.
[im
don't want to be a arse, but if you have dist. drive shims floating around in your engine, maybe you should pay someone else to assemble it

[Sigurd]

Just to be clear, this is what I ran last year and drained yesterday (30W), and this is also what will be going back in (10W-30). I'm not blaming the oil for anything. Frankly, yes, I'm using it because Jake does.

The lobes.

Brass gear is mangled due to pinion swapping. My fault.

Big end looks good.

Center looks good.

Lifters are spotless.

Center is a little scuffed.

More tomorrow. I'm beat.

[Sigurd]