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moustache bar adapter / no directions
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grandpa pete
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:29 am    Post subject: moustache bar adapter / no directions Reply with quote

swapping 1600 engines in a 69 bus.......the engine in the bus has a moustache bar adapter that is only bolted onto the 4 studs on the oil pump.this adapter is bent around the sides of the lowest part of the block and has two holes in it. Has anyone used this type of adapter ?can u tell me if it should be bolted into the sides of the lower block and what size bolt,nut or fittings i need? I am not comfortable with the whole weight of the engine/transmission hanging on the oil pump bolts.....or am i ok with 4 3/8 th oil pump bolts
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Keeby Swaggz
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds pretty sketchy to me... the pump bolts could shear off, more potential for leaks... just not feelin' it... there's gotta be a better way...
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babysnakes
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That method has been done many times. It is what you use when you have a standard T-1 case. If you have a universal case the 3 holes are already in the case for the mustache bar.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should bolt to the lower case seam hole with a longer bolt, don't forget the plate between the pump cover and bracket. BTW those are 8mm studs and they are longer than stock.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412899
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the man above said, those adapters have been used for years. Not the perfect solution, but they have worked for many buses for many thousands of miles.

There should be a bolt through that bottom hole. Not sure of the exact size or length, but it is easily measured and found at the local hardware store.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-5036

Here is one example of the adapter in question. See that bolt in the picture, that is what you need. I think it's M8, but I don't know the exact length.


Here is one from the gallery. I've never seen this one before, but it was apparently available commercially in Europe. I like that it does not use the oil pump bolts.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would build an engine that has the correct 3 bolt holes for the mustache bar instead of using an adapter. I just don't trust them. OG mustache bars are easy to get in the classifieds here.

Holes in case for mustache bar can be seen here.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Mustache bar bolted on:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Not the best pics of it but it's all I had in my gallery.
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sofakingcool
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been running my adaptor for close to two months now.. no problems and no leaks. I was worried about it also but seems to be doing fine. Oh and I drive my bus 45 mins each way to and from work.. on the interstate Wink
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TimGud
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have seen oil leaks caused by the adapters in the past. Never seen one sheer off the bolts though.
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RatCamper
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
As the man above said, those adapters have been used for years. Not the perfect solution, but they have worked for many buses for many thousands of miles.

There should be a bolt through that bottom hole. Not sure of the exact size or length, but it is easily measured and found at the local hardware store.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC-C10-5036

Here is one example of the adapter in question. See that bolt in the picture, that is what you need. I think it's M8, but I don't know the exact length.


Here is one from the gallery. I've never seen this one before, but it was apparently available commercially in Europe. I like that it does not use the oil pump bolts.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It looks like it's just using an OE t2b 1600 moustache bar and a funny looking adapter cradle.
For the disoriented: The t2b 1600 bar looks kind of like the type 4 bar. It has the same frame rail mount points but shares no parts with its type 4 sibling. The rubbers for these are what connects the bar to the frame brackets.

I have a modified t2b 1600 bar on mine currently. Where the two flanking engine mount holes are in that pic I have a couple of pieces of thick strap extending forwards and bolted to the case on my Subaru motor. Looks really neat. Kudos to whoever adapted the bracket.
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RatCamper wrote:
cdennisg wrote:


Here is one from the gallery. I've never seen this one before, but it was apparently available commercially in Europe. I like that it does not use the oil pump bolts.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It looks like it's just using an OE t2b 1600 moustache bar and a funny looking adapter cradle.



The moustache bar isn't in question, it's the cradle that adapts that moustache bar to a non-bossed case. Many cases were produced that did not have those bosses cast in place.

TimGud, in an ideal world, all engines would be built with bossed cases. In this situation, it's quite possible that the OP doesn't have the time or the bread to build another complete engine. These things have proven themselves to work well enough to not cause major issues, as long as they are used in stock HP conditions. Using one for a high performance engine would be ridiculous, of course.

I ran one for several thousand miles a few summers ago in my 68. No issues, no leaks, no big deal.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gramps, if you mind hasn't been destroyed yet with some of theses replies, just follow what Busdaddy said. Wink
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Busdaddy posted while I was composing mine. He is exactly correct.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
RatCamper wrote:
cdennisg wrote:


Here is one from the gallery. I've never seen this one before, but it was apparently available commercially in Europe. I like that it does not use the oil pump bolts.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It looks like it's just using an OE t2b 1600 moustache bar and a funny looking adapter cradle.



.

TimGud, in an ideal world, all engines would be built with bossed cases. In this situation, it's quite possible that the OP doesn't have the time or the bread to build another complete engine.
.


Ya I realize that, he never did say if the engine going in it has those holes or not. My take on it was the engine coming out of it had the adapter. If I had to choose an engine with the proper mustache would go in it.
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimGud wrote:
If I had to choose an engine with the proper mustache would go in it.


Definitely.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desertbusman wrote:
Gramps, if you mind hasn't been destroyed yet with some of theses replies, just follow what Busdaddy said. Wink


x2 - factory bar really is designed for the weight. Oil pump mount is an inferior work around.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
Desertbusman wrote:
Gramps, if you mind hasn't been destroyed yet with some of theses replies, just follow what Busdaddy said. Wink


x2 - factory bar really is designed for the weight. Oil pump mount is an inferior work around.


More missunderstanding. I was refering to BD's post answering Gramp's question.
busdaddy wrote:
It should bolt to the lower case seam hole with a longer bolt, don't forget the plate between the pump cover and bracket. BTW those are 8mm studs and they are longer than stock.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412899


Gramps evidenlty wants to mount an engine he already has and it doesn't have the stock bus mounting provisions. I would think he knows that already and would prefer the correct mounting but just can't do it with his engine.
He didn't ask what type case he should have if he was building a new engine. He didn't ask about the mystery "U" bracket. He asked about the common adapter which utilizes the pump studs. And evidently the engine he is removing has that bracket. From his question it seems he is aware that it isn't as wonderful as the stock bus engine mounting. Even so, he's aware that others have gotten by with that adapter mount. He just asked how it is intended to be used. Wink

Simple question.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Busdaddy and myself answered the question at hand. I expounded on the answer with another possible option. Discussions like this lead to better understanding.
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
Busdaddy and myself answered the question at hand. I expounded on the answer with another possible option. Discussions like this lead to better understanding.


Yes of both issues Wink !

That other thing is an interesting mount. I've never seen one either. Looks pretty substantial although still not as good as the correct case and stock mounting.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My engine builder told me that he can take a mustache bar and fit it to an engine case as a template. Then drill and tap holes. This converts the type 1 case for a type 2 application. I guess not every case has the meat in the right areas but it sounds possible to me even though I've not personally done it.
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
My engine builder told me that he can take a mustache bar and fit it to an engine case as a template. Then drill and tap holes. This converts the type 1 case for a type 2 application. I guess not every case has the meat in the right areas but it sounds possible to me even though I've not personally done it.

Correct, some cases have 1 or 2 of the undrilled bosses but not all, some have none.
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