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Burley 16" rear control arms - arrived!
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:28 pm    Post subject: Burley 16" rear control arms - arrived! Reply with quote

I thought you guys might like seeing what else Burley is building for me.
He sent these progress shots this week.

His 16" control arms. Flanges shaved off, and reinforced.
Those were pretty rough looking OEM 14s when they left my house via UPS.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Shock brackets will be upgraded to his syncro brackets.. but cut down to remove lower portion that would otherwise hang low.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Should gain about 1" clearance at the front corner, only a couple mm before.

Going for powder coat next week.

Will provide a write up on my install on a 2WD Westy, running 29" tires.
Stay tuned.
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..


Last edited by j_dirge on Thu May 26, 2011 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jedi
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Applause Applause Applause VW Logo
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syncrodoka
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That gusset plate on the side is new. I like it better that just the back welded then smoothed out design for strength.
Now it looks extra pimpy too Wink
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timbo
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Niiiiiiiiiiice ! Burley is the man!
Ive got a month or so on a set of his lifted UCA's and luvin the van more very day!

Thos arms look suuweet!
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Them's Burley.
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Williamtaylor33
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your gonna have one awesome 2wd when your done.
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andy syncro-nutz
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job! Cool
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1621
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those do look very nice. I'm really digging Burley's work!

J Dirge - What's the plan for your van? What's the benefit to having 16's on a 2wd? Will you need to trim the sheetmetal? With the Syncro.org springs being slightly lower than the stock Syncro springs, will the lower perch be aligned with the upper perch?

Sorry for all the questions - but the project looks extra cool and I'm looking for some details. Thanks!
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries on questions.. Post more.
Happy to help.

Sooo...

I had gone to 16" wheels in order to fit G60 brakes over 288 disks up front..
15s would have worked. Ha-HAH!
But now I have room for 312s.. (Thats for another time.)

Then I chose 225/75r16 tires, in part, to help bring SVX rpms into range for HYW cruising. The tire (BFG Radial Long Trail load range D) turned out be a very pleasant surprise. They handle great. They are quiet and have very nice road manners. And they do OK on dry off-road.

Then I discovered that my van no longer fit in thru my garage door... but thats another story.

The real problem now was that with 29s there was zero room for snow chains.. and airing down would have been risky.. That was not going to be acceptable.

I considered shaving the flanges on my own.. but that only buys 3/8-1/2".
Still not enough room for cables.


Anyway.. As I edge closer on the SVX, the added benefit of 29" tires was +2" of honest-to-god clearance.. and that means I can run the SVX cast iron headers.. which should please the BAR ref for CA smog.

So one day I am trading emails with Burley about the tire carrier and this came up.. and a few minutes later IMPULSE BUY..

I figure that, I may as well go the whole 9 yards.
16, no flange, reinforced, and strengthened shock bracket.. In the end it is not that much more money for the added cool stuff.. and it gives me a hell of a lot of flexibility as this project evolves.


I had decided long ago to over-build due to some of my van's use.. Heavy towing, big loads.. and some dirt. It will likely get 930s at some point and a TBD when the trasnmission is rebuilt.

The spring perches should be fine.. Burley knows this is 2WD. And those remain in place, just a new welded bead around the edges to beef it up.. I *may* have a slightly different spring action now, though, because the wheel sits 1/2-5/8" aft of OEM. A longer lever.

That spring issue remains to be seen. I am not married to these syncro.org springs. They work fine. It sits at 18" now. If they need to be swapped for something that can handle all the added weight (the SVX, the tire carrier, and up to 300lbs of tongue weight), then I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
As it stands the combo of these springs and the Monroe Sensatracs seems to be a reasonable blend. A little harsh when empty.


As far as the 16s vs 14s. Most of the arm remains the same as OEM.. and aligned as if it were a 14er. The arm is the same shape, overall same geometry.. Burley gets the added space by removing 3/8" of that flange forward.. and the remainder comes from moving the bearing housing flange off back..

If you look closely you can see the flange is no longer centered on the geometric shape of the bearing housing. So that may impact CV angle.. but I have no idea if that will cause a problem. I am hoping it remains in range.. but if not.. I'll move the engine and trans aft when the SVX is built.

I should add.. I would not ask just *any* shop do this 16" arm.. NO WAY!
You can imagine the mess if it were not constructed properly... using proper jigs, etc.


Pretty cool.
Fun project... gotta say, that a vast majority of decisions were made based on what I learned here on this site.

And Burley? What can I say.. its like the guy reads my mind.
Scary cool stuff he builds, too. Its low on flash and high on function.


But now my boat is being neglected.. just not enough days in the week.
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Steelhead
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inspiring
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madspaniard
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lots of fun,

as it always happens with these vans and us crazy upgraders, we start by upgrading just one thing, which leads into another, and another, and "while I'm doing this why I don't also do this..." Laughing I always say the fun is in the chase, not in the prize.

Great work by Burley. Jim, thanks to your posts I'm now thinking about Burley bumpers, Burley spare tire carriers, Burley UCAs,
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vannin
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice cant wait to see the whole project Cool
Nik
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r39o
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

j_dirge wrote:
That spring issue remains to be seen. I am not married to these syncro.org springs. They work fine. It sits at 18" now. If they need to be swapped for something that can handle all the added weight (the SVX, the tire carrier, and up to 300lbs of tongue weight), then I'll cross that bridge when I get there. As it stands the combo of these springs and the Monroe Sensatracs seems to be a reasonable blend. A little harsh when empty.

That is my spring and shock combination in the rear for my 85 Westy. About 18.25 inches including a small plate to combat Westy lean. It does push the van up. The Sensatracs added around a good inch of lift for me, as I recall.

The harsh, for me, comes over speed bumps. DAMN! What a LOUD thud I get over speed bumps. Scary. But, that is the only fault I find.

j_dirge wrote:
If you look closely you can see the flange is no longer centered on the geometric shape of the bearing housing. So that may impact CV angle.. but I have no idea if that will cause a problem. I am hoping it remains in range.. but if not.. I'll move the engine and trans aft when the SVX is built.

This angle issue may be offset by the geometry as the axles are not perpendicular to the transmission in a 2WD 14 inch setup. Burley will know ALL about this, I just noted it the other day while my 90 was on the hoist. My Master VW mechanic buddy (with decades of Vanagon experience) said they are all like that. Always been offset. I am guess that is how they could lengthen the arms and still be OK. But, I am not 100% on all that stuff.

This longer trailing arm / more room for chains topic is yet to be addressed by me. I want to see how things work out with my current setup after the new Suby EJ22 is dialed in.

Keep having fun!
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snoop
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:
This angle issue may be offset by the geometry as the axles are not perpendicular to the transmission in a 2WD 14 inch setup.

Not sure that this will be useful, but just in case it is...near bottom of page is "Three Dimensional Angle Calculator". Would be nice to know what the stock 3-D angle value is...any volunteers?...in order to quantify the magnitude of deviation our mods impose. Wonder what problem would present and at what angle would it...? Also wonder what 3-D angle a stock 16" syncro presents?...any volunteers for this too?

http://vw.zenseeker.net/Wheels-LengthenedTrailingArms.htm

Much thanks j_dirge, great documentation of your very cool modification program...it's inspiring thoughts that would make mrs. s very nervous Laughing
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snoop wrote:

http://vw.zenseeker.net/Wheels-LengthenedTrailingArms.htm

OK.. That site just punched scary visions of 230hp long-travel 2WD buggy Vanagons into my other-wise traditional thinking brainium.

Shocked

I am sure to blame you when Mrs. D gives me "the squinty eye".


I love youse guys!
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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SWbySWesty
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

subscribed.
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More..

The beefed shock brackets.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I hear there's maybe another Samba-man getting these arms?
_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrived.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Stoke!
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The shaved off flange area..

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any chance you could weigh one for me.
Very curious as to how much with or without the bearing carrier.

dylan
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