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Kirk
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2003
Posts: 5487
Location: North Texas
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 Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: New Notch Owner |
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Hey Guys! I Picked up a '65 notch last night. Does have some rust issues in the floors and heater channels. Will probably try to make it a driver for now and save my pennies and pieces for rust repair/paint later.
I've never owned a Notch before, so I'm kind of excited. Couple questions if I can (and I promise to search). I have a friend cutting up a 68 square. I need a rear apron (mine is cut out for a header exhaust) and the front bumper mounts are rusted. Can I use those two pieces off his car? Also, this car has no brakes. Are front brake parts pretty hard to find? Its already been suggested to me that I convert it to a type 1 ball joint 66/67 beam. Why would I do that other than the availablity of brake parts? Lastly, what Type3 (notch) vendors should I be looking at for parts? Anything I should be looking for specifically as I start to go through this thing? Thanks in advance. I appreciate any help.
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Last edited by Kirk on Tue May 17, 2011 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jimmynotch
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2003
Posts: 2901
Location: sacramento
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 10:56 am Post subject: Re: New Notch Owner |
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| Kirk wrote: |
Picked up a '65 notch last night. Does have some rust issues in the floors and heater channels. Will probably try to make it a driver for now and save my pennies and pieces for rust repair/paint later.
I've never owned a Notch before, so I'm kind of excited. Couple questions if I can (and I promise to search). I have a friend cutting up a 68 square. I need a rear apron (mine is cut out for a header exhaust) and the front bumper mounts are rusted. Can I use those two pieces off his car? Also, this car has no brakes. Are front brake parts pretty hard to find? Its already been suggested to me that I convert it to a type 1 ball joint 66/67 beam. Why would I do that other than the availablity of brake parts? LAstly, what Type3 (notch) vendors should I be looking at for parts? Anything I should be looking for specifically as I start to go through this thing? Thanks in advance. I appreciate any help.
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A) yes you can use the rear apron. It might be slightly different in shape from 65 to 68, but it will work fime and nobody willl notice. Front bumper mounts willl work as well.
B) Stock Wide 5 drum front brake parts are hard to find. You can either swap to later style 4 lug disc (requires swapping everything from spindles to the wheels, but parts are all very available) or do an Empi wide 5 disc swap (do a search.... its a great mod).
C) do not swap to a type 1 beam unless you want to ruin your cars value and driveabilty. It does not increase your availablity to parts as stock four lug T3 stuff is very easy to find. Again, do a search. It has been covered over and over.
D) ISP west and theSamba classys are your starting points for sourcing parts.
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Jim in Sacto -
| my wonderful loving supportive wife wrote: |
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1965 1500-S Notchback --"Maggy"
1971 Type 2 Double Cab --"George"
TOOB member #2 |
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j8bug
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2008
Posts: 1700
Location: When we were all (213) Los-Angeles
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| I believe the squareback rear apron has a little recess to put your hand to lift the hood where as the notchbacks are straight across. A t-3 aficionado will notice that detail in a heartbeat. |
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j8bug
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2008
Posts: 1700
Location: When we were all (213) Los-Angeles
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldnt go with a t-1 beam especially if you are new to t-3s... |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| j8bug wrote: |
| I believe the squareback rear apron has a little recess to put your hand to lift the hood where as the notchbacks are straight across. A t-3 aficionado will notice that detail in a heartbeat. |
Unless you body work it like I did mine.  But the bottom portion could go right on with no problem.
As for the rest of what Jimmy said above, I have to agree. Wide 5 drum parts are a little hard to find (like brake shoes, and wheel cylinders). I know, because I have a 64 T-34, and it uses the same parts (2 year only stuff).
All of the 68 brake parts (front and rear) will go on your 65 though, so IF you wanted to do a 4 lug conversion, that would be a good parts donor. It could also donate it's bumpers, and even floor pans IF needed, along with the front beam, and rear subframe (with trans).
Front door glass, and the windshield also can be used (if you're trying to help your buddy part it out), along with some other bits. I hope this helps.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
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| Tram wrote: |
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blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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I know that car - did you pick it up in Carrolton?
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| j8bug wrote: |
| I wouldnt go with a t-1 beam especially if you are new to t-3s... |
Yeah, it's not the unbolt the old one, and bolt up the new one sort of thing. I think in the t-1 beam in a t-3 thread (do a search), we roughly figured out that it's at least a 1000 dollar swap, and maybe even more depending on who you get it from, shipping, and whether or not you decide to go with lowered spindles or even air bag it. Also the more complete the "new" beam, the more the cost goes up.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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flyinglow94
Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2005
Posts: 1165
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Type 3's were known for a smoother ride over the bug. So the swap to a bug beam is not a great trade. The 5 spoke wheels will rub the fenders on a type 3 or type 1 if the cars is lowered at all (I've had both with these wheel problems.). The bug wide 5 disc conversion will take care of that problem. If you can do body work swap rear aprons but if you don't have the time put the rear bumper on it and you wont notice the peace is missing. The 68 will have alot of pieces for you.
I had that Notch on my watch list. It was a good deal for 1500.00
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supaninja
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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Kirk
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2003
Posts: 5487
Location: North Texas
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you guys for the info. I picked the car up in Denton, but I know who you are thinking of in Carrollton, he sold it to who I bought it from. I've got some popcorn, a cold beer and a search button at my disposal tonight, so I plan to do some light reading for the next hour. I really want to keep it five lug if I can help it. I'll research that five lug disc brake thing first. I didnt know it would bolt up.
It is the pink squareback hes parting. Dunno what hes doing with the IRS subframe. I figure to take the rear apron, bumpers (they look the same) or at least the brackets, as my bumpers are missing them, front bumper mounts, i would take the front apron, but I think his is beat up, and maybe some small stuff like lights. Feel free to tell me what will work. I notice Gerson makes floor pans which is awesome, who makes rockers? And no one makes heater channels? I have a big rubbermaid tub full of parts I need to inventory. I opened it, and right on top is a trip speedo. Thats cool, right?
The main issues here seem to be:
*Rust
*Rust
*Wiring
*Brakes
*Rust
In no particular order. I really appreciate the welcome. I'll make sure I search before asking dumb noob questions, and post lots of pics. 
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22461
Location: Escondido CA
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Dont worry Kirk. You wont get a new ass hole torn into you here in the T3 forums. Not like over there in Bay Land
The only stupid question is the one not asked-even if its been done ten times before. 
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| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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You might want to spend a couple of nights (with a bowl of popcorn and some beer), and look around the forum, you might be surprised how helpful we are to people here. The number 1 thing I'd get is a Blue Bentley (61 to 67), as it'll cover everything you ever wanted to know about a t-3. The 2nd thing I'd do, is print out the wiring diagram from the tech section of this site for your car, or download it, and take it to Kinkos, and have them blow it up, and print it out. This will help you, as you can hang it up in the area you're working in, and actually see it.
Just be aware that the wide 5 disc conversion requires some modification to a set of later spindles to use the kit. You might get them off that 68 Square.
Nobdies making rockers, but CIP is selling skins. They fit decently, but they don't just drop in place. They need some fitting.
Your on the right track though, just ask if you run into a problem, or something you're not sure of, and someone will answer it for you.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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vlad01
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010
Posts: 3069
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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yes us type 3 people are the best, not like stupid beetle or bus owners.
type 3 always take cleaver people with cleaver innovation.
Let me tell you that restoring a type 3 is the hardest ac vw to restore. |
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supaninja
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010
Posts: 4020
Location: houston
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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I looked at that pink squares front apron...holy crap its in awesome shape, one small easy to straighten dent, dude snatch that up!. rockers are a pain, notch ones different then fasty/squares. the gerson pans are bees knees, thats doing right and they are a solid investment. Another thing, and i just learned this one...later pre-70 type 3's have shorter bumper brackets. my rear bumper is from a 68 or 69 and th damn bumper is touching my rear fenders 
I asked that dude about the subframe and he said he's saing it for someone, I also asked about the windshield. The drivers front fender was pretty damn nice and straight too.
Here is the last nugget of wisdom-don't throw any and i mean any type 3 part away. that includes all nuts and bolts!
That speedo is sweet!
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Megasquirted Type 4 powered Notch http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427890&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Blog of Doom http://supaninjanick.wordpress.com/ |
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Schiner
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2008
Posts: 62
Location: Lenoir City, TN
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Is it really that hard to find brake components for the 5 wide pattern?
My next project is a 63 notch (my avatar). Is it really worth swapping to a later bolt pattern just because of brake parts? |
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kooldub
Samba Member
Joined: May 21, 2004
Posts: 259
Location: ColoRADo
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: |
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sweet project kirk! keep posting your progress!! hope 1 day to get me a notch (project)...
kris
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68 Fastaru
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notchboy
Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002
Posts: 22461
Location: Escondido CA
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Schiner wrote: |
Is it really that hard to find brake components for the 5 wide pattern?
My next project is a 63 notch (my avatar). Is it really worth swapping to a later bolt pattern just because of brake parts? |
No not realy. But people dont buy them because they cost to much. Finding 61-63 is harder than 64-65.
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| t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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luckystiff
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2005
Posts: 2252
Location: hickory,nc
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| j8bug wrote: |
| I wouldnt go with a t-1 beam especially if you are new to t-3s... |
Yeah, it's not the unbolt the old one, and bolt up the new one sort of thing. I think in the t-1 beam in a t-3 thread (do a search), we roughly figured out that it's at least a 1000 dollar swap, and maybe even more depending on who you get it from, shipping, and whether or not you decide to go with lowered spindles or even air bag it. Also the more complete the "new" beam, the more the cost goes up. |
only way it's gonna cost you a grand is if you're bagging it. if i nickel and dimed and added up everything i think it might be $700ish. but thats brand new EVERYTHING. narrowed conversion beams from the two major guys doing them here(punchdrunk and autowerks) run around $400ish. a set of ball joint dropped spindles $150. unless you happen to have one figure a donor t1 beam for your trailing arms and springpacks should be less than $50.
BUT.......
unless your going really low and/or trying to fit heavy offset wheels a narrowed type1 conversion beam may not be the best way. flyinglow's 66-67 type1 disc kit conversion to the type3 is golden. not only does it solve your brake problem since it narrows the front like an inch per side it helps solve those empi 5s rubbing problem while your at it. you'll need the spindles from that 68 to do the conversion so grab 'em.
i did the t1conversion on my square because i want it LOW and i changes wheels damn near yearly and want lots of freedom there. i will do the t1 disc kit swap on another in the future. i beleive most have said they even perform BETTER than stock t3 disc...ken....
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tirekicker
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2007
Posts: 826
Location: Orange, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| vlad01 wrote: |
| yes us type 3 people are the best, not like stupid beetle or bus owners |
suck it!
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13280
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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good advice here
Kinda sad to see the notch in that condition, I know I've seen pics way back in time, when it was nice. We commented that with the paint job it looked like a baby bel air
Glad to see it go to someone that will do it up right
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