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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16850
Location: sticksville, ct.
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 Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:55 am Post subject: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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Yea...me and a T4...who knew...
So the deal is I have been asked to install a engine that should be FI, but the replacement is a carb'd case
this is what I have:
of course...it's assembled and I'm shop #3 to deal with this.
That said, I swear I saw some static on T4's needing the rod in there otherwise there are oil pressure issues
The builder said use a block off and have a nice day. I just want confirmation that this is indeed true.
please and thank-you 
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51113
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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I wonder why they put a plug in the drain hole?
If the bushing is drilled you have to put a dummy shortened rod in there to block the oil passage, can you see any little holes in the side of the bushing?
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RWK
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1347
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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As you know the push rod gets left over oil from front cam bearing, I would imagine there is "some" pressure there to push oil up rod and bushing, but with a return drain at the same point, (journal) can't be much. I see the return is plugged now, I would make a headed plug that fits bore and not fall to cam, and that would back up against block off plate, (lathe work) keeping oil in the bushing/cam journal. I would normally plug it at the cam galley to keep oil from filling the pump pocket, but that's not an option now. Alternately you could tap the bushing and put in a 1/4-28 screw of some sort, start engine with cover off to get rid of chips, then green lock tite the screw in. I wouldn't want the stock rod in there bouncing around.
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RWK
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1347
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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No oil holes in the bushing from the main galley on the case (CB) I have. I would have thought that also, would make sense, apparently enough oil gets wicked up the rod from journal.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16850
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
I wonder why they put a plug in the drain hole?
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no clue...
| busdaddy wrote: |
If the bushing is drilled you have to put a dummy shortened rod in there to block the oil passage, can you see any little holes in the side of the bushing? |
| RWK wrote: |
| No oil holes in the bushing from the main galley on the case (CB) I have. I would have thought that also, would make sense, apparently enough oil gets wicked up the rod from journal. |
so I can't see any hole in the bushing. to the best of my ability I took a wire with a short hook on the end trying to "feel" one and no hole..
If my memory is correct, it is if that bushing is removed you're screwed, right?
What RWK is saying is there is no hole for the pushrod, but if that bushing were removed, this would be basically like an internal bleed, correct?
in other words (like the builder said) cap it and move on, no pushrod needed?
sorry, usually when I'd dealing with a T4 they are getting removed Last one I was inside of has to be 25+ years ago at this point...
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76884
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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A stupid question:
With the drain plugged, the orifice is dead-ended, so once it fills with oil there should be no pressure drop.
True or false?
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51113
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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False, it'll still be draining back into the case via the inner end of the bushing. And relying on a pump block off to hold back oil pressure is asking for a leak.
Some bushings are drilled, others not, if it's drilled then the end of the lifter feed gallery is open to the case and pressure escapes. If the bushing isn't drilled on the lifter side then the gallery is closed and there's nothing to worry about.
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obieoberstar
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 1126
Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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Found this description on the attached parts website:
You will need to shorten your fuel pump push rod by approximately 20mm and keep it under the block off plate. It is important to check for clearance once you have shortened the rod. This is to prevent a drop in Oil Pressure created by removing the rod completely.
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/us/ac127400-fu...f0QAvD_BwE
There is no additional information on the CSP website for this plate. Hmmm. |
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obieoberstar
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2002
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Location: Tucson
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16850
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
Some bushings are drilled, others not, if it's drilled then the end of the lifter feed gallery is open to the case and pressure escapes. If the bushing isn't drilled on the lifter side then the gallery is closed and there's nothing to worry about. |
I for sure will double/triple check that there is no drilling in the bushing.
so if there is no hole drilled it would be safe to say I can just install the block off and go then, correct?
The builder said do just that, but I thought there was (potentially) more to it than that.
worse case I suppose would be machine something with a "head" (think carriage bolt) and drop it in the bushing, but I don't think I will have to (unless of course I find a hole in it)
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51113
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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Yes and yes, and I was going to suggest a giant solid rivet or something like that to occupy the hole if there is a drilling in the side.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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RWK
Samba Member
Joined: June 24, 2009
Posts: 1347
Location: S.W. MI
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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I think you will want a rod in the hole  if it has an orifice into the bushing bore.
otherwise oil will not be restricted by a rod and bleed out cam journal drain under pressure, same is true if bush is out but worse like mentioned earlier.
Start it up with cover off you will know real quick.
PM me, I might have a headed block off rod.
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16954
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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Don,
Been there…. Done that.
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JasianBusBoi
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2024
Posts: 16
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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Hello all-
I have a Type 4 engine that is missing the fuel pump, so I am going to go with an electric fuel pump. I was trying to follow this thread to determine what to do. From what I read, I would just need to buy a rod then shorten it before putting in a block plate. What I didn't understand was the discussion regarding holes/drilling in the bushing. Is there a way I can determine this?
Thanks in advance |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51113
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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| JasianBusBoi wrote: |
| ....... Is there a way I can determine this?...... |
Not without a high end inspection camera, yu might be able to feel for holes in the side of the bushing with an angled pick, but you still don't know for sure just where they go.
The safe answer is install the rod, it may not be required, but you don't know for sure.
Put the rod in the hole and push on it while a helper turns the engine, feel for when it reaches it's highest point, mark it there and cut it off so it almost touches the inside of the blankng plate at the top of it's travel.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16850
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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I got with RKW who machined up a dummy push rod and then you can just cap the whole deal off
He was a pleasure to work with and very responsive
That said, I still haven't gotten this godforsaken job out of my life yet but I'm getting close...
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
|
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| Back to top |
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JasianBusBoi
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2024
Posts: 16
Location: United States
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| Posted: Yesterday 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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| Is plugging the drain hole unnecessary? |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51113
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Yesterday 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: T4 Mechanical fuel pump delete |
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Plugging the drain hole would be a mistake, if the bushing was drilled, and the rod allowed a little oil to leak past it could build up under the cover, the drain hole solves that issue.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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