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ernstben
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005
Posts: 621
Location: Manchester, Mi
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 Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:28 am Post subject: The anatomy of your Ghia's hinges |
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As part of my '63 project, I was looking into getting my Ghia's hinges redone. The passenger side was still fairly tight, but the driver's side hinges were completely toast.
Researching on thesamba brought up this post by user hpw:
| hpw wrote: |
Rebuild them yourself
Iowegian told me the correct bushings to get and I can't seem to locate the
sizes. It is not that difficult to do and the bushings are around $1.00 apiece.
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I rebuilt mine using these bushings and thought I'd share some pictures of the innards of Ghia hinges to anyone else who goes this route.
Here is one of the offenders, you can see in these pictures how much wiggle there is in this original hinge:
The hinge pin needs to be driven out first. I accomplished this by using a combination of a vise, appropriately sized socket to allow the pin head to pass through but still support the pin, and in about half of the cases, a press. Here's one half-way out and then removed:
After removing it, it became clear how it worked. The steel hinge pin goes through 3 different areas on the hinge. The areas below that I've outlined in blue are static. The pin does not rotate in this area. The areas I've outlined in red are the areas where the pin rotates:
The material that bears the brunt of the wear and eventually fails causing saggy doors is this, the bronze bushing:
On some of my hinges, it was completely gone. On others, like the one pictures, it was in ok shape. Rebuilding the hinges involved pressing the old bushings out (using the same methods and tools as before) and pressing the new ones in. After that, the same hinge pin is reinstalled using the press. It should be a very, very tight fit.
Here are the bushings I used thanks to hpw:
Motion Industries
Their inventory # is 00008754
It is a Bunting # EF0507 08
http://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mii/index.html
I hope that is at least a little helpful to someone doing this on their own. If there are any questions, please feel free to send me a PM.
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Ben
'63 Ghia Coupe Project
'59 Panel Project
'56 Ragtop Project |
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DrakeB
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2010
Posts: 243
Location: Here, obviously
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:07 am Post subject: |
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I have been following your thread for quite a while. I vote for this to be added to the how to sticky as it might help others with the same problem.
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Bondo? Bondo? We don't need no stinking Bondo!
How is it 'NOS' if it has been modified?
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
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How did you check the worn hinges for fractures? Those are common for the aluminum Ghia hinges due to their design and the weight they must bear. When John Copello refurbished hinges (or perhaps he still does) he explained to me that it takes a trained eye and many of the cores he starts with end up as scrap.
IIRC, the upper door hinges were redesigned three times over the years, yet they were still plagued with cracking.
Then again, I shouldn't care since it's not my car and people are so stubborn they'll just do what they want and call it good.
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West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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ernstben
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2005
Posts: 621
Location: Manchester, Mi
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Gary wrote: |
Then again, I shouldn't care since it's not my car and people are so stubborn they'll just do what they want and call it good. |
I was figuring that I'd get this sort of response. I don't understand why there is this negative attitude toward doing something like this yourself.
Let's assume that the hinges I re-bushed do have cracks and in a year or two, they fail. My total cost for doing this was around 16 dollars. In the meantime, I was able to learn something new, spend some time with my Grandfather while I used his press, and felt a great sense of accomplishment when it turned out well.
I'm not spreading information on how to jury-rig some important safety feature of these cars, I'm only trying to help by sharing my experiences with others who might be in similar financial situations.
Ease off would you, Gary?
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Ben
'63 Ghia Coupe Project
'59 Panel Project
'56 Ragtop Project |
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DrakeB
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2010
Posts: 243
Location: Here, obviously
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:42 am Post subject: |
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Likewise too, Gary, what is the hinge has very minute microscopic stress fractures that can't be seen with the naked eye? That type of crack does exist quite often with aluminum.
This brings up a very interesting question: do the people that rebuild these professionally use an electron microscope to check for metal fatigue / stress fractures that cannot be seen with the naked eye? I wouldn't think so myself, but I am not a professional.
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Bondo? Bondo? We don't need no stinking Bondo!
How is it 'NOS' if it has been modified?
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rnccen
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 33
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Good thread....DIY....if you get a few years out of the hinges then you have saved $$$....and enjoyed the experience. |
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hpw
Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2006
Posts: 3010
Location: memphis
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2011 4:52 am Post subject: |
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I'm glad it worked out for you. Good job  |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32561
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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J1
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014
Posts: 698
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: The anatomy of your Ghia's hinges |
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I'd like to try this too, so I looked for that product. I think the specific webpage is this... http://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mii/productCatalogSearch.jsp?q=00008754
But the description and the photo on the website don't seem right. Can anyone confirm? Or provide another source?
Bunting EF050708 5/16" ID, 7/16" OD, 1/2" Length, SAE 841 Oil-Impregnated Sintered Bronze Flanged
Motion Item No.: 00008754
Manufacturer Part Number: EF050708
Manufacturer Description: EF0507 08 (FL 32-4) SINT BRZ BRG
Price $1.15
Type Of Bearing:Flanged
Nominal Inside Diameter:5/16"
Nominal Outside Diameter:7/16"
Nominal Overall Length:1/2"
Type Of Material Used:SAE 841 Oil-Impregnated Sintered Bronze
Flange Outside Diameter:9/16"
ALTERNATE PART NUMBER:2440681
FLANGE THICKNESS:1/16"
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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
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iowegian 
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:27 am Post subject: Re: The anatomy of your Ghia's hinges |
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| Jawon wrote: |
I'd like to try this too, so I looked for that product. I think the specific webpage is this... http://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mii/productCatalogSearch.jsp?q=00008754
But the description and the photo on the website don't seem right. Can anyone confirm? Or provide another source?
Bunting EF050708 5/16" ID, 7/16" OD, 1/2" Length, SAE 841 Oil-Impregnated Sintered Bronze Flanged
Motion Item No.: 00008754
Manufacturer Part Number: EF050708
Manufacturer Description: EF0507 08 (FL 32-4) SINT BRZ BRG
Price $1.15
Type Of Bearing:Flanged
Nominal Inside Diameter:5/16"
Nominal Outside Diameter:7/16"
Nominal Overall Length:1/2"
Type Of Material Used:SAE 841 Oil-Impregnated Sintered Bronze
Flange Outside Diameter:9/16"
ALTERNATE PART NUMBER:2440681
FLANGE THICKNESS:1/16"
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Those are indeed the correct numbers. The flanged bushing looks like the one in the lower right corner of the photo.
Two bushings req'd per hinge.
But it sure looks like the price has skyrocketed------the last time I bought them they were only 88 cents each.  |
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motorhead364
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 715
Location: Amarillo Texas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:58 am Post subject: |
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I was just about to start researching this as I'm about to hang my doors.
Thanks, subscribed
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63 ghia coupe |
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J1
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Joined: February 10, 2014
Posts: 698
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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I see. So the description is correct and it's only the bushing in the lower right of the photo. And you need 2 per hinge... 1 that you put in from the top and the other from the bottom. I had assumed it was more like the top right bushing in the photo, just one solid piece that went through the entire hinge. Thx!
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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
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J1
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2014
Posts: 698
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Uh, 2 pieces is gonna cost $2.30... and ground shipping $9.89
I guess it's still only $13 to end up with a nice tight door (hopefully) but the cheapskate in me has to ask... what kind of walk-in store might carry this? Or am I gonna waste all my time calling around instead of actually fixing the door?!
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1971 Ghia coupe. Assume I know nothing and you'll be pretty darn close to the truth. |
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Jawon wrote: |
| I see. So the description is correct and it's only the bushing in the lower right of the photo. And you need 2 per hinge... 1 that you put in from the top and the other from the bottom. I had assumed it was more like the top right bushing in the photo, just one solid piece that went through the entire hinge. Thx! |
You are correct. And as I recall (it has been a long time since I have done the procedure) the flange of the bushing is a bit too thick, so they have to be dressed down a bit with a file and/or the distance between the hinge leaves has to be opened up in order to get it back together. |
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Jawon wrote: |
Uh, 2 pieces is gonna cost $2.30... and ground shipping $9.89
I guess it's still only $13 to end up with a nice tight door (hopefully) but the cheapskate in me has to ask... what kind of walk-in store might carry this? Or am I gonna waste all my time calling around instead of actually fixing the door?! |
If you have a Motion Industries branch near you they should be able to order them in for you.
http://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mii/miLocations.jsp?LANGUAGE=0
While you're at it get some extras so you can do all of the hinges. |
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kman
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2005
Posts: 739
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Many older parts stores should have a drawer or two of them in stock. Just bring the dimensions or the old hinge with you. |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| bobnorman wrote: |
Just ordered 8. Cost me 20 bucks, shipping included!
Thanks for posting this, it's a great help! |
Good to see this pop back up from time to time. |
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KGCoupe
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2005
Posts: 3580
Location: Putting the "ill" and "annoy" in Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| iowegian wrote: |
| bobnorman wrote: |
Just ordered 8. Cost me 20 bucks, shipping included!
Thanks for posting this, it's a great help! |
Good to see this pop back up from time to time. |
All we need now is to have Gary pop back up every now and then with another negative comment.  |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| KGCoupe wrote: |
| iowegian wrote: |
| bobnorman wrote: |
Just ordered 8. Cost me 20 bucks, shipping included!
Thanks for posting this, it's a great help! |
Good to see this pop back up from time to time. |
All we need now is to have Gary pop back up every now and then with another negative comment. |
How are they holding up by the way?
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