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AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cringe every time I see someone suggest an oil supply restriction on one of these turbos. Journal bearing turbos should *not* get any oil restriction to the oil supply other than the bearings themselves. Only ball-bearing turbos should get a supply restriction. A restriction in the supply to a journal bearing turbo will just cause the bearings to fail prematurely.
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greebly
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
I cringe every time I see someone suggest an oil supply restriction on one of these turbos. Journal bearing turbos should *not* get any oil restriction to the oil supply other than the bearings themselves. Only ball-bearing turbos should get a supply restriction. A restriction in the supply to a journal bearing turbo will just cause the bearings to fail prematurely.

First of all Andrew, I did not "suggest" I asked if he had an oil restrictor.
I did not read the entire thread, just the last two pages. Laziness on my part, but again I was not suggesting anything. Oil pressure determines whether you need or want a restrictor. No restriction and a big drain can lead to problems with certain applications by reducing overall oil pressure to the engine. Here is what Garrett has to say about it in their Faq.

"Q. Does my turbo require an oil restrictor?
A. Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing. The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals. With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage. Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a restrictor as a last resort. Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines. Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo. The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance. "
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the same way that you did not 'suggest' an oil restrictor, I also did not ever say that you 'suggested' an oil restrictor. I merely stated the fact that I cringe whenever someone does make that suggestion. Thanks for the Garrett quote. I've read it before but don't mind seeing it posted as it nicely confirms exactly what I was saying.

greebly wrote:
No restriction and a big drain can lead to problems with certain applications by reducing overall oil pressure to the engine.


I do not believe that Garrett ever says that having a drain too large can cause a drop in oil pressure. If you have a link to them saying that I'd like to see it. If they do say that about any turbo application, this is certainly not one of them. As I stated before, this is also not one of those applications where a restrictor should be used or where one would help. It would only cause the turbo to grenade prematurely.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greebly wrote:
potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.)


1. Check 2. Check 3. Check... Well, yeah, that about covers it... Razz AND the oil pressure of a fresh rebuild and new oil pump.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syncroincity wrote:
The problem with automotive AN stuff is it's all Chinese crap. I dealt with aluminum aircraft AN fittings on Boeings all the time at work and I never had a problem with them snapping or rounding. I'd go with SS if/when I do use them. I'd like to convert my oil system hoses at some point, the hose clamp scheme looks hokey and unprofessional.

...or go shopping at work. Wink


This is not true! Earls, Aeroquip & Keith Black (XRP) are all top quality USA manufactured parts. FYI.....AN and JIC are same thread and sealing angles and interchange. You just need to use the proper hose type on a high heat application like a turbo feed/drain...I will only use Teflon hose never Buna N rubber on a high heat application.
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Doka Todd
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used Eaton/aeroquip aqp socketless hose for many years in our oil drains and it worked really well. Eventually we switched away from it to a stainless over teflon assembly because it was less parts we had to fabricate. The only trouble we ever had with aqp was when it ran near exhaust, and that was addressed easily with a heat/fire sleeve.
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Syncroincity
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, Aeroquip for sure, good to know Earls is good stuff as well. This was a big part of my rant about Daytona; all those top names sitting right on the shelf, in stock.

I plan on re-doing my pressure oil lines with AN fittings at some point, I'll probably get them from Summit.

I likely will ream out the fittings, and I'm still toying with going up to 1/2" NPT, I have to take a close look at the oil pan drain inlet and see if that flange will support a hole that large.

I have a fair length of teflon/SS braid hose left, that's what I'm going to use for the drain. I scored a 100 foot pre-built 1/2" hose on Ebay for about $50 back on page 2 or so... Wink Great hose, but a bitch to cut cleanly, I use a Dremel & cut-off disc.

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xoo00oox
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

Wish I was in a better position to take all that mess off yer hands, but I do like where this is going. Is it getting the full 1.8t + Quattro?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Is it getting the full 1.8t + Quattro?



Just the 1.8t. We had been looking for a van to build what will be called a simplified 1.8t conversion. We will be using the inline engines from the Passat and Audi A4 and eliminate all the junk for a nice clean un-cluttered engine bay with all the power and reliability of these proven engines.

Jerry offered use of his van to build the first one on. That Audi has offered up its guts for us to build with.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

The peeling away of the Diesel sticker was the best part so far!
I'm so pleased to have this happening. This van will be touring the country, soon as I can stop running to the hospital every 2 weeks as they make sure my brain won't fall out. Wink

Thank you, my friend, can't wait to see what you do to this old girl.

Jerry McCavitt
aka Syncroincity
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dkoesyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

Why are you dropping the diesel?
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Syncroincity
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

dkoesyncro wrote:
Why are you dropping the diesel?


Just unhappy with it for the most part, after spending a lot of time and money. Filthy to run, loud beyond reason, not getting great mileage (hi power will do that, it's the one fun part of the engine). I'm over it.
I have a 1.8T in my 5-spd AWD Passat wagon, and love that engine,

Cue the end of the movie "The Aviator".

Wave of the future.

Wave of the future.

Wave...
Of the future
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

I lurves me some diesel, but given all the oddball challenges of your AAZ build, I don't blame you for switching to the 1.8t
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zuhandenheit
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

I often wonder what's happening with this van.

This kind of makes me sad, but I guess I understand! Did it ever really run well?

Anyway, uh, where are all those parts going . . . ? Razz
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

By the way, I've often wondered how different the experience of going from a boxer to an AAZ would be than from an original diesel to an AAZ.

I mean, my van, to begin with, was loud, rattled, left black oil stains wherever it was parked, etc., and was absurdly slow. Now it is somewhat less loud, usually does not stain driveways, and maintains highway speeds up steep grades.

But sometimes when I hear a WBX I think that if I started with a smooth engine like, maybe I wouldn't always be sure that I did the right thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

Would have been better had I bothered to re-gear the trans, for sure.
I'll post it up for sale when the 1.8T is done...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

whatever you do to this van it is awesome. i love the 1.8t.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

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Jerry had a Diesel type bell, we swapped it for the stock flat 4 type and put in a new seal


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Complete new clutch assembly and adapter plate.



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If Jerry was a nice guy, he would have told me that the input shaft had been swapped for one with a larger spline rather than let me spend and hour trying to wiggle the engine into place. Jerry is not a nice guy.

I had to pull the engine back out, pull the clutch and put in a disc with a larger spline.



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New starter and Westy Venture adapter.






We've now got an engine mount bar that allows us to put the inline 1.8t engines from the Passats and Audi A4 into a van using a stock transmission. this allows use of the nice stock 1.8t engine mounts and puts the transmission at the exact height as a stock van so there should be no issues with driveshaft angles. We will be making a jig to duplicate this mounting
bar.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: AAZ Turbodiesel swap into '86 Vanagon Syncro Reply with quote

Getting closer! I drained out 15 gallons of diesel and put it to good use in my waste oil furnace.

All wiring in the engine bay is hooked up, all coolant lines and hoses are complete, exhaust is done entirely in stainless steel, PS lines and tank are complete, electric throttle pedal is mounted and wired, intercooler mount has been fabricated and put in place.
The 1.8t started right up and runs great. I'm waiting on a few silicone elbows to finish up the intake system and I should be ready to start road testing.


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