Terrible clanking

[ac78]

Hey all-

78 2.0L hydr. FI.

I just finished puting new Mahle P&C's and rebuilt heads on. Various seals as well including oil pump, front and rear crankshaft seals etc. Intailly, I had a couple FI things unplugged, bad injector connector and are good now. Originally when I started the engine, there was a sort of moan that I hadn't heard before, it's now gone, but I have a teribble clacking sound. I thought the fan housing was loose, exhaust but all check out good. It does sound like it's coming from inside the case though.

I have what I think is good compression all the way around and am not spewing oil.
1-144
2-146
3-140
4-148

When I increase the rpm, it starts to be less noticable almost goes away. However, once the RPM reach a point, it wants to stall.

I apologize for the jittery video, but I wanted to move quick to turn it off. It doesn't sound good.
http://78vwwesty.shutterfly.com/pictures/36

It sure does sound like it's coming form the rear(Fan housing) of the motor. Could it be the oil pump lobe getting eaten? Or worse P&C?

Thanks in advance!
_________________
78 Westy 2.0l hydr. FI

VW Campmobile
For people who believe a family's
car should be it's castle !

[BugMan114]

did you make sure the fan itself was tight? also when you had the motor out did you remember to tighten the flywheel, and all the bolts on the pressure plate? i know nothing about those bus motors, just throwing out ideas. when you put the pistons in did you make sure they weren't upside down (i.e. arrow pointing the flywheel). did you pull the rods off? if so, rod caps torqued properly?
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Aircooled Airheads

Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!!

[ac78]

I am sure everything was torqued properly according to Bentley/Raby video. The arrows were pointing to the flywheel and I did not touch the rods other than a little oil for the pins.
_________________
78 Westy 2.0l hydr. FI

VW Campmobile
For people who believe a family's
car should be it's castle !

[nextgen]

Hard to tell from the sound on the video, sounds external. Use a rubber hose to isolate the sound. Or even a long screw driver, put the point on the block and the handle agaist your ear.
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[nextgen]

Hard to tell from the sound on the video, sounds external. Use a rubber hose to isolate the sound. Or even a long screw driver, put the point on the block and the handle agaist your ear.
_________________
email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs

[josh]

Is there a grinding sound as much as a clacking sound?
Kind of sounds like it to me.

I hear something that sounds like it could be a bad alternator bearing.

I would try running the engine without the belt.
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[Randy in Maine]

It almsot sounds like one of the lifters is not in "the cup" correctly to me. Is that possible?

[Westfabulous]

Sounds a bit like a bearing. Also, is your distributor well seated?
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[ac78]

I removed the fan yesterday to get a better look and everthing is very tight. I cranked it without the fan on(dist unplugged) and still have the noise.

Randy- Since my loud ping(hand turning) I had on the stand, I have been very careful with the cups.

Since the arrows were mentioned, I did remember when I opened the box, they were all turned 45 degrees. Meaning that if I installed them correctly as is, the arrows would have pointed up. I did turn them to face the flywheel. With that said, am I screwed now? If it was the pistons, would I still have great compression?

I was thinking of removing the spark plugs, hand turning and trying to see if anything was in there or if I could make the sound without compression. What do you think?

I never removed the distributor through the whole process.

Thanks!
_________________
78 Westy 2.0l hydr. FI

VW Campmobile
For people who believe a family's
car should be it's castle !

[nsracing]

[ac78]

I definitely had a lifter tap as I pulled it in the garage and then it sat without oil in it for at least a month. When I was installing the rockers they were all a bit spongy but now they all see very firm. I will check them again. Thinking about the sound it does seem low. I'll try the rubber hose stethoscope by the lifters with someone else cranks too.

I also wanted to mention I replaced a bad injector connector yesterday. it sounded amazing for the first 30 seconds and as I opened the door to take it for a spin clackity clack.

Thanks
_________________
78 Westy 2.0l hydr. FI

VW Campmobile
For people who believe a family's
car should be it's castle !

[ac78]

I reset the valves to 2 turns instead of 1.5 and it didn't make a difference. None were spongy.

At this point I am really thinking the flywheel is loose some how. The clatter seems to be coming from the the fan itself. I also notice some crunching sound as I was starting.

It seems it has to be the flywheel. Originally when I tried to take off the flywheel prior it was so tight I almost gave up on changing the rear (front)main. I had to kick the wrench to break torque. I just kept thinking about all those posts saying you might as well do it now why the engine is out and that's why I kept going at it. The seal didn't really appear to be leaking, but I was there anyway with a new viton seal so I chose to press on. It was torques at 40 and then 80.

I don't want to, but I am going to pull the motor and see if the bell has a nice new shiny ring or extra groove in it.

Now that brings up a new question. If it is loose, can I just tighten it and try again or are there other things that are messed up now. Also would a loose flywheel screw up the vacuum, a miss running higher rpm, etc because the balance is off? What else do I need to check while it's out again?

Thanks!
_________________
78 Westy 2.0l hydr. FI

VW Campmobile
For people who believe a family's
car should be it's castle !

[SRP1]

Ok so the fan you say is tight, what about the fan hub? Sounds like a fan issue of some sort, almost like the fan hub is chattering on the crank snout. Did you make sure the key was still in place when you installed the hub?
If the fan is all good then I gotta go with the sound being in the bellhousing, clutch or loose flywheel, push the clutch pedal in, see if the noise changes at all.

[ac78]

Before I get going on my flywheel theory, I did want to add that my most rear #2 adjustment screw is almost all the way in now after 2 turns. The screw was a replacement from a local shop and is slightly shorter that the originals. I do have a magnet to fetch the lifter to check it and would only minutes vs. hours to take the engine out. I will check to see if it's in pieces first.

Currently the fan is back on at 14 ft lbs.

What I meant to say is that when the engine was out the Flywheel was almost impossible to get off. I am sure I retorqued it to 80ft lbs. I don't have it in fromt of me, but I believe the hub itself was 30 ft lbs and the fan 14 ft lbs. The key was in place before the fan.

there are 2 things I did to the ends of the crankshaft:

Rear- I removed the hub to replace the rear(fan hub) seal. I did tap the hub back on with a hammer to make sure it was firmly on over the key(thumbs first, then hammer) and torqued. Then the fan key (spacer that you can't mess up because of the extra hole for alignment) then the fan.

Front- I removed thepressure plate, then the clutch disc and then almost killed myself getting the flywheel off(with a friends help providing opposite pressure.) I changed the big(front) seal and then put the flywheel back on properly using the dowel pin(I am confident) and then 40 ftlbs, then 80 ft lbs all around.

I did not check the endplay because I put everything back on in the order it was taken off. However, I know for sure that when I torqued to 80 ft lbs, it was a heck of a lot less that what I had to break to get it off. That leads me to believe that there was more squish at the higher torque and now I am unbalanced. Does that seam reasonable?

Thanks!
_________________
78 Westy 2.0l hydr. FI

VW Campmobile
For people who believe a family's
car should be it's castle !

[ac78]

Status Report!! Since my last post, I decided to pull the motor. Man! that is a lot easier the 2nd time around.

I found that the flywheel was loose. Loose by quite a bit. I did have some teeth marks on the top half of the bell housing. All the nuts are at 80 ft lbs now and I would love to slap it back in. Should I torque it a little more? Is there anything else I should check or can I go for it?

Thanks!
_________________
78 Westy 2.0l hydr. FI

VW Campmobile
For people who believe a family's
car should be it's castle !

[nsracing]

Use some Red Locktight this time. And take up the torque in smaller increments...especially to last 20 lbs.

[ac78]

Just double checking... Take it back off and then red locktight, start with snug and go up to 80 ft lbs in increments of 20? Should I go to 100? I understand some use an impact wrench, which is probably way more than that.

I don't have red locktight, but I guess this can wait until morning.

Thanks again!
_________________
78 Westy 2.0l hydr. FI

VW Campmobile
For people who believe a family's
car should be it's castle !

[nsracing]

If you put more, you will break the bolt. Then you will have a new problem. Are these bolts the serrated ones? or the countersunk?

Follow the specs. Do 40 lbs...then add 20 lbs...then last 20 lbs. Locktight man. Or they might back out again.

At least you found it early or the flywheel could have eaten the crankshaft. But I will change that short adjuster if I were you and put the regular size ones, if you have to order them. Plenty of them around.

[ac78]

Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm not sure what you are referring to with the short adjuster??
_________________
78 Westy 2.0l hydr. FI

VW Campmobile
For people who believe a family's
car should be it's castle !

[SRP1]