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Adventurer
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Joined: June 03, 2011
Posts: 225
Location: Irvine -> Escondido
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 Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:00 am Post subject: Building a "Class 11" look alike |
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Hello everyone!
This is my first post on TheSamba, its not entirely new since my family has been avid Samba users for a while
( we have a 69 convertible and a 70 Westy)
I Just decided to stop lurking on the sidelines of the good info and join.
I have a 72 standard that me and my dad restored a few years back into daily driver condition.
It has an almost brand new 1600 dp and clutch.
I love my car to death but I have been wanting to change it for a more custom feel for a while.
Recently at the Featherly park, 12th Annual Spring Picnic show in SoCal, I saw Sxuxrxf's Class 11 look alike and decided that it was exactly what I want out of my car.
I have always been adventurous and I have many, many outdoor hobbies and I cant wait till the next time I go jeeping with my grandpa.
With my bug I plan on doing some easy-to-reverse modifications that will be off-road capable, not high speed mind you, but where a stock beetle cant necessarily travel.
I also want my bug to still be my daily driver since I am a college student and have no way of affording 2 cars and everything that goes with it (insurance, etc).
This is what I am planning on doing to my car when I have saved up enough.
3" lift spindles and new ball joints
I am also looking into a disc brake conversion kit for the front
Re indexing rear torsion bar (not so much as to wear out the stock type 1 cvs and need a type 2 or 4 cvs thing axles or stub axles, like I said It needs to be easily reversible)
Larger tires such as those on AZ-bug's and sxurxf's class 11s (235/75-15 or 7.00x15) Also I will be using my stock rims.
I am looking into new shocks, just because mine are probably pretty old, and in the case that I may need them to improve the off-road handling of my bug
I dont plan on doing the Cut & Turn method to lift the front end due to its complexity ( I cant weld, yet) and since the car is still really my dads and he wants to be able to reverse this project easily for resale.
Any suggestions would be very helpful and appreciated
Oh yeah and Im on a young persons working budget so I have to keep the cost down without compromising really important stuff.
S
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1972 Standard Beetle 1600dp Class 11 Look-alike....SOLD  !
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rubsterob
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Joined: December 31, 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Redlands California
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:20 am Post subject: |
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welcome! Im from highland right around the corner from you. here is my car
its my daily driver so its all over southern california, if you need any help with any thing let me know Ill try and help you out best I can and I can weld if you need it.
and im a college student also so i know exactly how your budget is
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First car orange '72 class 11 lookalike |
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Adventurer
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Joined: June 03, 2011
Posts: 225
Location: Irvine -> Escondido
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the welcome, I hope to see you around sometime.
I was going to use this project as an excuse to learn from welding from my grandpa but at the moment it doesn't look like it will be needed, but we shall see.
Nice bug by the way.
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1972 Standard Beetle 1600dp Class 11 Look-alike....SOLD !
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sxuxrxf
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 1338
Location: Oceanside, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Welcome! Did I talk to you and your dad a few times that day?
Your ideas are on track for a cheap build. It doesn't really get any easier than bolting on spindles and indexing the rear for lift. Cheap too. There are many guys building these cars now, sow there should be plenty of inspiration for you.
-Robb
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sxuxrxf
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 1338
Location: Oceanside, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Day trip to Balboa for a bike ride, huh? I lived there for the better part of the last 20+ years. Great place to check the girls, from the Wedge to as far north as your legs can take you. Oceanside's just not the same.
| rubsterob wrote: |
welcome! Im from highland right around the corner from you. here is my car
its my daily driver so its all over southern california, if you need any help with any thing let me know Ill try and help you out best I can and I can weld if you need it.
and im a college student also so i know exactly how your budget is |
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Lotrat
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Joined: December 08, 2007
Posts: 2528
Location: Vista, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| sxuxrxf wrote: |
| Oceanside's just not the same. |
When/Why did you move to Oceanslime? I still miss living down in PB. |
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Adventurer
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Joined: June 03, 2011
Posts: 225
Location: Irvine -> Escondido
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| sxuxrxf wrote: |
Welcome! Did I talk to you and your dad a few times that day?
Your ideas are on track for a cheap build. It doesn't really get any easier than bolting on spindles and indexing the rear for lift. Cheap too. There are many guys building these cars now, sow there should be plenty of inspiration for you.
-Robb |
Yeah I am pretty sure he did. He was wary of the project at first when you told him you swapped out the rear axles for 944 axles and thing axles.
He warmed up a bit when he figured we could just re index the rear because he has done that to lower his car.
I am just concerned that re indexing wont give enough lift to level out the car after the front spindles.
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1972 Standard Beetle 1600dp Class 11 Look-alike....SOLD !
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Adventurer
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Location: Irvine -> Escondido
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Also I want to make sure that it will be durable enough for use on mild jeep trails.
Will just re indexing the rear be enough?
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rubsterob
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Joined: December 31, 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Redlands California
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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ya surf thats exactly what we did  started in balboa and rode up to huntington ate then turned around and rode back.
reindexing will get you up as high as you want to go. most guys lift it back 2 notches and clearance the spring plates just a little to keep it from banging into the lower stops.
if you want you can check
jack up the back of your car and look at the spring plate and its going up stop jacking when the spring plate touches the lower stop. thats about as much lift as youre going to get and it will be plenty.
then you can go to the front and measure the distance from your beam to the ground. the jack the front up until its 3 in higher and see if the car will be level
if you reverse these numbers it will show you the lift you get in the rear
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sxuxrxf
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 1338
Location: Oceanside, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Lotrat wrote: |
| sxuxrxf wrote: |
| Oceanside's just not the same. |
When/Why did you move to Oceanslime? I still miss living down in PB. |
Moved there in July. Needed a bigger place so the mother-in-law could move in with us  . But, I got a 3 car garage out of the deal!
I've been looking for your car when out out driving around. I'm in the Douglas/76 area and usually surf in Carlsbad.
On Saturday nights, I sometimes go to the IN-N-OUT on the 76 (just west of College) and hang out with the VW crowd there.
PB is quite a bit different since the "No booze on the beach" thing.
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sxuxrxf
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 1338
Location: Oceanside, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
Also I want to make sure that it will be durable enough for use on mild jeep trails.
Will just re indexing the rear be enough? |
VW's are extremely tough and capable vehicles as they are. You just need ground clearance. Larger tires will help get you there, but then you'll probably want more power or better gearing to turn them, so don't go too big.
Spend some time here and read up on cv's and axles...
http://blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CVJoints_Axles/cv_joints_101.htm
Swapping them out is not a permanent change. It's all easily bolted on stuff. Do what you can afford and don't forget the muffler. It will be the first thing to get smashed if you have a quiet pack or similar hanging off the back.
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Adventurer
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Joined: June 03, 2011
Posts: 225
Location: Irvine -> Escondido
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rubsterob wrote: |
reindexing will get you up as high as you want to go. most guys lift it back 2 notches and clearance the spring plates just a little to keep it from banging into the lower stops.
if you want you can check
jack up the back of your car and look at the spring plate and its going up stop jacking when the spring plate touches the lower stop. thats about as much lift as youre going to get and it will be plenty.
then you can go to the front and measure the distance from your beam to the ground. the jack the front up until its 3 in higher and see if the car will be level
if you reverse these numbers it will show you the lift you get in the rear
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Thanks for the info on I will check and see how much room it it gives me and see if it levels out.
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1972 Standard Beetle 1600dp Class 11 Look-alike....SOLD !
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AZ-BUG
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Joined: January 27, 2008
Posts: 477
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Re-indexing the rear will get you almost level with the front (with 3" spindles and cut & turn 1/2").
I kept the stock CVs so I decided not to notch the spring plates for added travel. If you look at Surf's thread you can see that his sits nice and level with the notched spring plates.
These cars are pretty tough as is, however depending on how hard you drive it certain things will eventaully give in. If I were you I wound consider the following mods (all relatively cheap, but require some work).
- trans straps and/or solid mounts
- beef up tie rods
- front suspension stops
- boxed (or otherwise beefed-up) rear trailing arms
- some decent shocks
With the above you will likely not get stranded on the trail. FYI I have had all of the above fail on me when left stock (broken trans nose cone, severely bent tie-rod, popped out ball joints, broken trailing arms (the CV normally fails as well when the arm bends/cracks), blown out shocks). With just a little work you can make it alot stronger.
Most importantly, have fun with it and post pics/updates! |
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Adventurer
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Joined: June 03, 2011
Posts: 225
Location: Irvine -> Escondido
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| sxuxrxf wrote: |
VW's are extremely tough and capable vehicles as they are. You just need ground clearance. Larger tires will help get you there, but then you'll probably want more power or better gearing to turn them, so don't go too big.
Spend some time here and read up on cv's and axles...
http://blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CVJoints_Axles/cv_joints_101.htm
Swapping them out is not a permanent change. It's all easily bolted on stuff. Do what you can afford and don't forget the muffler. It will be the first thing to get smashed if you have a quiet pack or similar hanging off the back. |
Thanks for the link Ill check it out.
It is all about affordability! New CVs and axles will more $$$ than I can throw at it right now unless I can get a good deal. Maybe get some used axles at the Classic in Irvine in a few weeks?
I am considering getting the Definity Dakotas you have or maybe the less aggressive A/T model.
As for power I figure my 1600 will handle OK. What do you think? Im running a stock carb, would a better carb do much?
I have a stock muffler w/ pea shooters but I was going to get shorter exhaust tips and eventually fab skid plates
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice AZ-BUG, I will look into the cost/ amount of labor it will take for that.
Remember I need to be able to finish each change by the end of each weekend so I can drive to school and work.
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sxuxrxf
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 1338
Location: Oceanside, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Get cv's and axles at the junkyard. There is a Porsche 924 or 944 (it's been painted and stripped of emblems) at the Oceanside Pick-A-Part right now with 'em still on the car.
You're in Ripperside, check out the yard near the 15 and 60 fwys.
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rubsterob
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Joined: December 31, 2009
Posts: 755
Location: Redlands California
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| sxuxrxf wrote: |
Get cv's and axles at the junkyard. There is a Porsche 924 or 944 (it's been painted and stripped of emblems) at the Oceanside Pick-A-Part right now with 'em still on the car.
You're in Ripperside, check out the yard near the 15 and 60 fwys. |
damn noe that its on the internet theyll probably only be there for another day or two
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dirtkeeper
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Joined: February 19, 2008
Posts: 3200
Location: Left of everywhere
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| sxuxrxf wrote: |
Do what you can afford and don't forget the muffler. It will be the first thing to get smashed if you have a quiet pack or similar hanging off the back. |
this is so true
and what AZ says
- trans straps and/or solid mounts...I used the urethane motor mounts and just the nose strap.
- beef up tie rods... you can cut the front sway bar and fits right in the stock rods.. make it the exact size to fill end to end, first time i did it it was about 1 1/2 short..guess where it bent?
- front suspension stops...yes requires welding
- boxed (or otherwise beefed-up) rear trailing arms... mine had just a little extra bracing and it took awhile but one did break..luckily it was local and not out on the trail
- some decent shocks ..kyb gas adjust are a cheap but decent upgrade
trail riding wont be too hard on it...... when you start doing jumps that get both wheels in the air is when you will start breaking things
my first bug was bone stock and i drove 1000's of miles on dirt fire roads and trails and the only problem i had was hitting my muffler occasionally.
I love the class 11 style
Some dual carbs give the stock engine some good power.
I personally wouldn't worry about returning it to stock, probably will never happen and late model bugs really don't have much value.
Have FuN! |
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Adventurer
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Location: Irvine -> Escondido
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks again for all the suggestions. Keep 'em coming! I am putting together a parts list so I can prioritize purchases.
Looks like my dad is starting to soften up on the idea of the class 11 style. He has been waiting for VWs to spark a deeper interest in me for a while and now that the bug has bit Im on full swing (must have been all the recent work my dad put into our bus to finish it for Springfest).
He is slowly giving in to the idea of getting new rear end bits and some deeper customizing to make it like a Commander Wagen and do a paint job similar to Biblethumpncop's except in desert tan. 
However Im sure its more like wishful thinking, right now Im more worried about functionality, once thats done Ill make Whitey (my bugs name) more pretty.
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Adventurer
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| sxuxrxf wrote: |
On Saturday nights, I sometimes go to the IN-N-OUT on the 76 (just west of College) and hang out with the VW crowd there.
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Did you have a Syncro Vanagon? The last few times I have been to that IN-N-OUT I have seen one chillin in the parking lot.
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