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1.9 WBX rebuild questions
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klucz
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:18 pm    Post subject: 1.9 WBX rebuild questions Reply with quote

Finally getting around to going through my 1.9L wbx. 90K mi og. It's dirty, leaky and 26 yrs old. The heads have been seeping as long as I've owned it, about 7 years and 35K. The water pump went out over a year ago and there appeared to be some water in the oil. I want to go through, clean, reseal, replace parts where needed and hopefully get it to a good state of tune. So here goes nothing.

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Measured the crankshaft endplay today using a 1" dial indicator that I picked up at HF. I got 0.006 in. with all 3 shims in place (O-ring and crankshaft oil seal removed).

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I'd also like to check for axial movement of the thrust bearing, as described by tencentlife in this thread:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=350136&highlight=crankshaft+endplay

I'm confused about how to "bolt up the FW so there will be no axial play between the crank/FW combo and the bearing itself". And why "when you do this you will not be able to rotate the crank at all". Never done this before and don't want to mess anything up.

Thanks

------
EDIT: corrected info regarding crankshaft endplay
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Last edited by klucz on Wed May 19, 2010 2:38 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tencentlife doesn't mention what to torque the flywheel bolts to if you are checking for thrust bearing movement. I personally would be afraid of damaging something is I torqued the bolts very high. I am sure he knows way more about this than I. You would want to add the extra shims, torque the bolts to whatever the appropriate torque is and then use bars to move the flywheel in and out while you watch the dial gauge.
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klucz
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Wildthings. I'm worried about damaging something too. But if it can tell me more about the condition of the bottom end and can be done safely with basic tools then I would like to try. Hopefully 10c will visit soon and maybe others will chime in as well.

Guess I'll have to remove the FW, measure the shims and then check crankshaft endplay again. Or should endplay be measured with all 3 of the original shims in place?

Think I bought the wrong dial caliper from HF and will have to try to exchange it, probably not till tomorrow though. I got the fractional and decimal one that goes down to 0.01 in., and it looks like the digital one that goes to 0.001 in. will be needed to measure the shims. And it was on sale for the same price. D'oh! In the mean time I'll try and search for more info and a source for shims (if needed).
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I added a little more detail for you on that other thread.
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klucz
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I'll give it a shot.
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klucz
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I checked crankshaft endplay again with all 3 original shims in place and got 0.006 in. of endplay. I guess this means that 0.002 in. should be added to the shim pack according to VW's specs. But the information in the thread mentioned above makes me think that it may be a better idea to leave the endplay as it is. At least until the thrust bearing can be checked. I guess it is not necessary to check right now and there are lots of other things to do so I will wait and see how things go.

Luckily I was also able to exchange the dial caliper and measure the shims. They are by my measurements: 0.0115 in / 0.29 mm, 0.0125 / 0.32 mm, and 0.0140 in / 0.36 mm.

Cleaned the motor a little too. It has never been this clean.

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------
EDIT: Looks like all the info I needed was in the thread linked above all along. D'oh.
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klucz
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I took most of the motor apart over the weekend. This was my first time taking a wbx apart and I got a little ahead of myself and removed the sleeves with one of the heads. At that point it seemed like removing the pistons and rods, checking everything, and possibly replacing the bearings and rings would be a good idea.

Unfortunately I dropped the #2 rod cap into the case and it got lodged in there. I got it out after about 20 minutes with a couple of magnets but unfortunately scratched the #2 crank journal, not terribly but enough to where my fingernail gets caught in it. Does this mean that the crank should be polished?

Another thing is that in the midst of everything I lost the orientation of the #2 connecting rod. It looks to me like the rods on the other side of the motor have the marks on the same sides, and that the stamps on the rods are also in the same orientation. Does this sound correct?

Then, while rotating the motor on the stand the distributor drive shaft fell out. Bentley shows it being removed with a puller. Should it have come out so easily?

Then... the dizzy drive shaft thrust washer fell into the case. Luckily I was able to get it out by rotating the motor on the stand. Bentley 13.34 shows two of them in the diagram. Should there be two? Meaning that there might be another one lodged in the case somewhere?

Also, the water pump mounting surface on the case has some damage from the bad water pump. I saw some pics on Ben's sight of a similar situation and how to deal with it, but now can't find that page. Here is a pic of mine -- does it look bad?
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The worst of the pitting on the heads.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also found some of this stuff in the case. Sat there and fished this out last night, looks like there is a little bit everywhere. Should I be worried?
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klucz
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone?
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a Tencent engine Liar
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klucz
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are the devil himself.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

could be cam bearing flakes
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Soze. I guess the only way to know for sure is to split the case, check everything and then decide where to go from there.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you allready had split the block, hard to say what those bits are.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, not yet. This is the first VW flat 4 for me. So I'm learning as I go. Will post back once I get it apart. Hopefully it'll go smooth. Thanks again.
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK so I've been searching, reading and thinking but am still not sure about a couple of things. I'm just really worried about damaging the case, crank and cam. So I have a couple of questions to ask. Please excuse me if these questions seem silly.

Would it be OK to remove the head studs with a vice grip? Should they be marked and reused in the same spots? ***EDIT: or should they be left in?

Is there a proper procedure to follow when splitting the case? My Bentley doesn't say anything (unless I'm overlooking it) and I haven't found anything specific using the Search, other than how to deal with stuck halves.

The crank pulley bolt is still on there. Would it be safe to use a pry bar wedged between longer bolts on the flywheel side? Would it be better if the flywheel is on there?

Any tips regarding this phase of the tear down would be greatly appreciated. Especially anything that a first-timer like me might overlook, drop, damage, etc.

Thanks
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Dude, you got a quarter out of your engine?! Sweet!Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

???that is a dime Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaiser Soze wrote:
???that is a dime Rolling Eyes



I suck at life. Smile I have 2 kids under the age of 5...I haven't personally seen pocket change in years. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tozovr wrote:
I suck at life.

I can relate.
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

klucz wrote:
OK so I've been searching, reading and thinking but am still not sure about a couple of things. I'm just really worried about damaging the case, crank and cam. So I have a couple of questions to ask. Please excuse me if these questions seem silly.

Would it be OK to remove the head studs with a vice grip? Should they be marked and reused in the same spots? ***EDIT: or should they be left in?

Is there a proper procedure to follow when splitting the case? My Bentley doesn't say anything (unless I'm overlooking it) and I haven't found anything specific using the Search, other than how to deal with stuck halves.

The crank pulley bolt is still on there. Would it be safe to use a pry bar wedged between longer bolts on the flywheel side? Would it be better if the flywheel is on there?

Any tips regarding this phase of the tear down would be greatly appreciated. Especially anything that a first-timer like me might overlook, drop, damage, etc.

Thanks
If the studs are in good shape-leave them alone. Get/use a puller on crank pully,prying may cause permanent case damage, and don't go driving anything between case halves. U have to remove oil pump before splitting and double check that 'ALL' nuts and bolts are removed holding case together. Make some kind of 'holder' for the lifters so u don't mix the locations up and Label them as to the position they go back in if they are reused.
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