The Highway Drug Interdiction Window Tint Pretense Trend

[Gauche1968]

So my point in starting this thread is not to commence a political shouting match about what constitutes legitimate law enforcement tactics, but to alert fellow Vanagon owners of a trend that appears to be developing within law enforcement that may affect you, if you have tinted windows on your van:

Twice now in less than a year, in completely different parts of the country, I have been pulled over by a local sheriffs' officer on the highway who appeared to be running a drug interdiction operation, specifically targeting vehicles with tinted windows. I was obeying the speed limit in both cases, committed no other moving violation and appeared to have been targeted only because the windows on my vehicle were tinted. In both cases the officer appeared to have had no interest in actually enforcing the state tint law, only to use it to initiate questioning in order to develop probable cause for, or get me to consent to, a search of my vehicle for contraband. In both cases I was pulled over using the tint pretext despite having valid out of state plates against which enforcement of local state tint laws is questionable at best.

In neither case did I consent to a search and was eventually sent on my way. The first officer was actually courteous and respectful, the second one: not so much. Anyway this appears to be a growing strategy for drug enforcement, so if you have tint on your windows (regardless of whether or not it is legal in your jurisdiction) be prepared to be pulled over and subjected to aggressive questioning, threats of having the K-9 unit called out to sniff around your car, etc. If this doesn't bother you, fine. If it does, try not to lose your cool in the situation, because that always risks making it worse.

Take care all!
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1984 Vanagon GL
1984 Vanagon Westy

[idahoskier]

I have limo tint. In which states did this occur?
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85 Westy w/ 2.2L Subaru
91 Westy w/ 2.5L Subaru - sold

[IdahoDoug]

Agree that it's gotta be annoying. Would I be right and you were also either alone or with another male passenger? I mention this because I'd be willing to bet that if I got pulled over in the same vehicle with my wife and kiddos I'd probably get a less aggressive treatment.

The combo is a high probability one: Van, out of state plates, tinted windows, older vehicle, one or two males, obeying the speed limit. If you're in a southern state, the van also hits on the smuggling of illegal aliens.

I don't know if you have any other "indicators" like a bumper sticker indicating sympathy with a former south american revolutionary, or a "leaf" logo or other things. In a world gone mad with "no profiling" political correctness these things still get noticed. And they should in my opinion.

So, like it or not driving a Vanagon is gonna get you some visibility with law enforcement. Mine is going to be bright yellow which will emphasis the sport/adventure toy image and perhaps make it something they'll ignore - not by design, just mentioning that stuff matters if you want to reduce your LE profile.

Dark tints make law enforcement officers nervous and rightly so. They can't see who's in the van and what's going on in there as they enter the dangerous zone close up to your vehicle. If you want to help reduce the tendancy for them to have "issues" consider turning on a bright interior light if you're pulled over, shut off the engine, and have both hands at the 12 0'clock position when they're walking up. If you REALLY want to see a relaxed officer, put the car keys up on the drip rail above your door where he/she can see them. Attitude also matters and the first few seconds may shape what happens next. I always smile and ask how they are doing, etc and regularly get warnings.

Anyhow, sorry you're getting hassled a bit.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[dcdubs]

....ha ha cops just wanna see if you got any hot ladies in the back with contraban so's they can take it/them doh
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dcdubs/glcustoms
AllRightGarageDoorsNW.com

[buildyourown]

This just in:

VW vans have been associated with the smoking of marijuana cigarettes....reefers.









Go cross the border a few times in different vehicles with different people. Profiling and strength of documentation is the only thing they look at. Scratch that, I've gotten out and back with out the correct papers with only a "scolding"

[IdahoDoug]

Yeah, that 'rep' is on my mind as well. We'll be vacationing in BC, Canada a lot and I'm expecting a little more once over than our usual. I'm also bringing the Van to have it sniffed by a LE dog before we drive it much as you never know what a previous owner might have hidden in it. So far all I've found are dozens of hornet and wasp nests around the underside. I bug bombed the interior, and also hand sprayed the underside with powerful insecticides before I pushed it into the garage last summer. Bugs from Georgia in the house did not sound like fun.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[idahoskier]

I expect more attention from police since its a VW van I know that Georgia is notorious for tint issues. Gauche1968, what level(s) of tint are you running?
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85 Westy w/ 2.2L Subaru
91 Westy w/ 2.5L Subaru - sold

[Wildthings]

I have cut way down on the number of times I have been pulled over by just driving a bit faster. In the past I usually hung at the speed limit or maybe a bit under if traffic were light, but after being hassled to death (was pulled over at least once annually for thirty years, always because of some cockamamie excuse) I decided to always aim to drive 5 mph over the limit. Have only been pulled once in the last 10 years and that was for speeding, and as I was doing 15 over at that point so it was justified.

If you drive the speed limit or under there is a presumption you are drunk, stoned, or have done something wrong. Throw in tinted glass, pot symbols, psychedelic paint jobs, or anything out of the norm and you are asking for it.

[GMByers]

Minor inconvenience. If you're doing nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about.
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And then there were two...downsized to 83 Doka &
74 Thing.

[Captain Pike]

[FNGRUVN]

[Wildthings]

I don't consider having to stand outside in the snow barefoot for a half hour a minor inconvenience as I had to one day when I was younger, we were never even told why we were stopped. I don't think that my brother who ended up being charged with possession after being stopped for no cause and then having to undergo an illegal search thought it was a minor inconvenience either. They claimed to have found a single pot seed mixed with the dirt on the floor under the seat. Wasn't even his car.

We just had a local guy that was pulled on fairly trumped up charges. I think his minor inconvenience to get the charges dropped will cost him at least $2000 and if not dropped could cost him his career.

[GBA 88West LA]

just another occupational hazard of driving a vanagon, all cops "think they have probable cause" just cause its a vanagon, i remember a few years back i got pulled over three times in three neighboring towns one after another, on one drive home ....in New Hampshire as long as the front doors and windshield isnt tinted they leave you alone, but once out of state you have to remember you have to obey that states laws not your home states laws
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88 Westy GL Vanaru 07 2.5 EJ25/AA Trans/oiling plates, 1.14 3rd-.77-4th..solar powered cabin

[Baxta]

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Ben Franklin, 1775

I can't understand that some of you just accept that you'll be pulled over with no probable cause just because of the vehicle that you drive. Don't you have a constitution that protects you from unreasonable search and seizure?
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Greg
'87 Syncro Westy 'Bastian'
2.2l

[dhaavers]

US law: Without probable cause or a warrant, you must be asked permission before a search. He refused & went on his way. Still a pain, I'd say...
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[j_dirge]

Have only been pulled over exactly one time in 9yrs of owning this Westy.

A month ago.. thought maybe I'd rolled thru a stop sign... after seeing the lights in my mirror. Thats rare though since I need to double clutch to roll and get into first.

No.
Officer thought the saw a cell phone in my hand.

I said. "Nope. No cell phone"
He said "Really?"
"Nope", I say.
He says, ".. you mean, not on you? or you don't own one?"
"I don't own one", I said.
"Congratulations!", says he.

Big smile.. like I made his day.

Sends me on my way.


I had a SS coffee cup. A flashing sunlight glint must have sent off the cell phone tax alarm.


Overall.. I've had fewer encounters with the law while driving my VW vans over the years... fewer than any other vehicle I've owned.
The worst one for undo PO attention was an old beater Volvo wagon.. Had a complete tear down search at the TJ border, once.. but maybe that was the half open tequlia bottle in the back seat. or the windsurf mast strapped on top.. with a grapefruit impaled on the front end?
(Note to self. Don't be a smart-ass at the border.)
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

[Jon_slider]

which states were the tint based traffic stops in, and what is their tint rule, and does your van comply with the state rule in which you were stopped?

> once out of state you have to remember you have to obey that states laws not your home states laws

this is correct

fwiw
I have never been stopped for tint, or any other bogus reason in my Vanagon, but I have only owned one for 8 years.

I drove a limo tinted van, including the driver and passenger windows for 6 of those years. I was stopped twice for traffic violations in that time, but the tint was never mentioned.

One stop was for not having my seatbelt on. I had rolled down my driver window so the cop could see me, at an intersection.. he pulled me over cause he could see I had no shoulder belt, gave me a seatbelt ticket, which I fought, he did not show, so it was dismissed. The other stop was for running an orange light, got off with a warning. Neither cop said anything about my blacked out windows, neither asked to search my vehicle.

otoh, I have heard that tijuana impounds tinted vehicles, because kidnappers use tinted windows.. I think kidnappers also drink water, but that is not yet illegal.

> I can't understand that some of you just accept that you'll be pulled over with no probable cause just because of the vehicle that you drive. Don't you have a constitution that protects you from unreasonable search and seizure?

in theory the USA is a free country, in practice it is a police state. there is also supposed to be a separation of church and state, but in reality, our presidents, and most of our elected representatives, have strong religious ties. Just like every other government in the world.

now back to our regularly scheduled topic, Vanagon Hippy Pothead profiling

[GBA 88West LA]

state motto Live Free or Die ..not giving up liberty to any extent.... but profiling whether people choose to acknowledge it or not is a daily practice in the law enforcement community....when you see a 2fast 2furious hopped up honda...whats your first impression? same thing with Vanagons
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88 Westy GL Vanaru 07 2.5 EJ25/AA Trans/oiling plates, 1.14 3rd-.77-4th..solar powered cabin

[rowan]

In a free society the police would never stop anyone unless they observed them breaking the law or had clear reason to believe that they were breaking the law.

Driving a van without breaking any laws is not a clear reason to believe that one is breaking the law. Consider how many vans (VW or any other type), with or without tinted windows, there are and how many miles those vans drive. Now consider how often these same vans are involved in criminal activity. I think it would be a safe assumption that it's a great deal less than half the time. I know I have driven a VW van for several hundred thousand miles none of which have involved criminal activity.

I am never willing to give up my freedom for security or to make the job of the police easier.
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Rowan

89 Syncro - Juniper Mackenzie

09 Honda Fit - Finnie
17 Ram ProMaster - John Hordle

[danfromsyr]

there's more teens and above with reefer driving mom's mini van, SUV & Camry than VWs driving around..
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