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fastwagens
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 1028
Location: Michigan (The other west coast)
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 Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| James 93SLC wrote: |
Oh and remember, a VR6 is what one bank of the W12 looks like. That's means one of those should also squeeze into a Vanagon  |
U R Sic. |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: |
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Looking at the head, I'm not sure I like the idea of the end cam lobes being unsupported. Why does the intake cam only have three bearing caps?
Will a 24v head bolt onto this block...d'oh, I bet the pistons are relieved to accept the additional valves, huh?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| James 93SLC wrote: |
I believe there was an initial idea to offer a diesel variant of the VR6. Every time I show someone a picture of a VR6 head that has never seen one, asks me if it's a diesel.
Oh and remember, a VR6 is what one bank of the W12 looks like. That's means one of those should also squeeze into a Vanagon |
Yes, even back at the introduction of the VR6 in 1992 VW mentioned that a direct injection diesel version was being considered. As recently as 2008 I had heard rumors that a diesel version was on the drawing board. With the move of the Passat back to the transverse chassis set there was no way to use the previous Audi 90 degree V6 TDI so a VR diesel would have made sense. But now with the focus being on downsizing engine capacity, I think that's off.
David |
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Tank83
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Germany - near Heilbronn
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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I got my VR6 last week.
We will convert my van next month:
The engine was already build in to a T3, engine mounting, exhaust e.g. are already done. |
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brent239
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2004
Posts: 145
Location: Utah...
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Trans cooler |
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[quote="James 93SLC"]This will be used for the transmission cooler. I like the idea of this style being more durable hanging under the van. This is also a dual pass design, meaning the trans fluid flows all the way to the end before traveling back out the outlet. Having the fittings at one end should make for a clean install. Best part is that it was only $50 off Ebay. Fittings and hoses should keep this at the $100 mark. I'll probably also install an inline thermostat before winter.
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thats crazy ive never seen your van around, my mom lives in Brookfield, spent alot of time in that area. Summit is a pretty cool store even if they dont have much for us, they still have custom stuff. I made these adapters and they screw directly into the tranny, and then you need some 3/8 which you can get at your FLAPS. so be more around 75 bucks.
sorry files corrupted
but its part nos SUM-220701-B and 949092ERL
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88 westy suby 2.5 |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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I'm down here just east of Canton. I think Brookfield is more Cleveland area?
I'm using some Russell M12X1.5 - 6AN adapters with some Summit brand 90 degree 6AN swivel fittings. That will all be connected with 3/8" hose from the FLAPS.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Looking at the head, I'm not sure I like the idea of the end cam lobes being unsupported. Why does the intake cam only have three bearing caps?
Will a 24v head bolt onto this block...d'oh, I bet the pistons are relieved to accept the additional valves, huh?
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I've never seen or heard of any issues with the way the cams are supported. It just works that way because of the cylinder stagger. Look closely and you can see each support is directly over each cylinder between the intake and exhaust valves. The only one that is not is the cylinder closest to the cam sprocket on the 3 support cam, and that one has the support at the sprocket itself.
Each cam is both intake and exhaust. They are not separated. That is why some people consider the 12V VR6 to be a SOHC design and not a DOHC.
Nope, the 24V head will not bolt to the 12V block.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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240Gordy
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2008
Posts: 2354
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| fastwagens wrote: |
| James 93SLC wrote: |
Oh and remember, a VR6 is what one bank of the W12 looks like. That's means one of those should also squeeze into a Vanagon |
U R Sic. |
There was a thread somewhere by a guy in Hong Kong who put a W12 in a Porsche Pre-A Coupe.
Total outlaw.
_________________
Tencentlife said,
"So, now that you know what you're doing, go to town."
2010 GOLF TRENDLINE 2.5
1985 GL now with more! a 2.1L
H&R SPORT(RED) Springs FRONT , SLAM SPECIALTIES RE6 AIRBAGS REAR |
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Tank83
Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Germany - near Heilbronn
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| 240Gordy wrote: |
| fastwagens wrote: |
| James 93SLC wrote: |
Oh and remember, a VR6 is what one bank of the W12 looks like. That's means one of those should also squeeze into a Vanagon |
U R Sic. |
There was a thread somewhere by a guy in Hong Kong who put a W12 in a Porsche Pre-A Coupe.
Total outlaw. |
The W12 fits into a vanagon.
I have been at the Hockenheim "Bustreffen" last weekend.
A blue T3 with a W12 and a Porsche G50 gearbox was there again (also last year).
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Tank83 wrote: |
The W12 fits into a vanagon.
I have been at the Hockenheim "Bustreffen" last weekend.
A blue T3 with a W12 and a Porsche G50 gearbox was there again (also last year). |
 !  !
Only thing that really would make me scared to attempt something like that is the electronics and wiring.
Drive-by-wire and the immobilizer systems on the newer cars can be a headache.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:33 pm Post subject: Update |
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Received two boxes of engine parts over the last few days. The head is torn down and the old stem seals out. Cleaning off the baked on carbon on the exhaust valves is taking a long time. Anyone have any secret formulas?
Need to do another small parts order for a few things I forgot.
Probably won't be able to do much till after the holiday. Happy 4th everyone!
Pic of the top of the head.
Here is a shot of the new upper chain tensioner vs. the old style.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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To lap or not to lap.....that is the question.
So since the head is apart, I figured I would try my hand at hand lapping the valves to make sure I have a good seal. Honestly they look pretty good, especially the intake valves. None of the valves or seats have what I would call pitting. Only some discoloration.
Here is one of the worst looking exhaust valves.
Here is an intake valve.
This is an exhaust valve after using some Permatex valve grinding compound.
I've only worked on a few of them and am not thrilled with the Permatex compound. It's a multi grit formula (has 120, 180 & 240 mixed together) and it isn't giving me the high polish finish I was expecting. Honestly I think the untouched seats & valves look better. I hunted around town for a place that carries a fine grit lapping paste, but nobody carries it. I can order it online and wait till it arrives, but that will set me back, and honestly I'm wondering if it's necessary. I might just stop where I am and reassemble the valves as-is.
Any opinions from the engine building guys would be appreciated.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I like to hand-lap my valves when I remove a head. As long as the valve seats (especially the exhaust) aren't cupped too bad and the margins are good, it seems like a no-brainer. I've never seen hand-lapped valves turn out shiny, but maybe I've missed a step along the way. They always turn out sort of battleship grey.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| I like to hand-lap my valves when I remove a head. As long as the valve seats (especially the exhaust) aren't cupped too bad and the margins are good, it seems like a no-brainer. I've never seen hand-lapped valves turn out shiny, but maybe I've missed a step along the way. They always turn out sort of battleship grey. |
"No brainer" ...That is my thinking as well.
Yes the Permatex stuff gives it a battleship gray finish. That's why I contacted them to see what the grit was, and found put it's a mix of coarse-medium-fine. I may just order some and delay things a week. Grrrrrr
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
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tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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ThorAlex
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Tank83 wrote: |
The W12 fits into a vanagon.
I have been at the Hockenheim "Bustreffen" last weekend.
A blue T3 with a W12 and a Porsche G50 gearbox was there again (also last year).
[img]...[/img] |
Here's a vid from 2010:
Link
_________________
1990 syncro 1.6TD "Smily"
Ex-vans:
1990 Caravelle coach 1.6TD
1986 Transporter Double cab syncro 2.1 112hp
"I'm wrong so often... It's great!" - Adam Savage |
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ajdenette
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2009
Posts: 768
Location: Hope Valley RI
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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I seem to remember using different grits in sequence back in high school auto shop, but that the final result was still sort of grey. I doubt that it makes much difference.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ajdenette wrote: |
| I would think something like tooth paste might get you that shine you are looking for cheap and fast |
I just might! I've actually come across a few references on the web to using plain old Crest for fine lapping.
I also borrowed this from a guy at work. He has been a mechanic most of his life and has all kinds of tool. This is a Blue-Point / Snap-on Valve lapping tool. The really neat thing is that is doesn't just spin the valve in one direction, but oscillates it back and forth and advances around. Meaning that it doesn't just go back in forth in the same arc. I would say it advances about 15 deg for every oscillation. I'm tempted to open it up to see how it works. Of course it's as old as dirt and probably worth allot to a tool collector 
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
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Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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James 93SLC
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 937
Location: NE Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Head is all cleaned up and I'm ready to put the valves back in. I'll post some pictures soon of my homemade spring compressor.
I also needed to chase and clean the threads in the block for the head bolts. I just took one of the old bolts and used the dremel to cut some slots in it. Worked great.
_________________
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91 Vanagon Carat
93 Corrado SLC
-------------------------
Photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/slc.corrado
--------------------------------------------------------
tencentlife "Sometimes a pooka is a problem and sometimes it's just a pooka" |
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Crankey
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 2656
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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James, you might try Flitz polishing paste. it's made for aluminum and fiberglass. works well on paint, metal (steel) and I have also polished glass (I mean real glass not fiberglass) with it. I don't think it would change the shape of the valve, but it would make it shiny.
or, maybe a local auto repair shop might sell you a small amount of lapping compound ?
how do you lap the valves ? do you put the valve in the head and spin the valve against the seat with compound between until they mate up perfectly ? |
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