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How to fix sheared alternator stud? Coolant pump broken?
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<<< That gives me hope, as long as I can find someone with a tig welder and the skills to use it. I called a muffler shop by my house and they have a mig welder, I'm going to keep shopping around.>>>

I'm not sure what you are going to shop around for.
I the guy close by you has a mig welder--run ( don't walk ) over there and have him weld on the washer & the nut.
That snapped off bolt will back right out.

That guy in that link maybe only had a tig welder.
A Mig will work very well.
A stick welder will work if that's all that's available.

Now, if you have a bunch of time, and want to experiment with dremel tools, screwdriver's, JB weld, do that.

The down side of the epoxy is it doesn't build any heat to expand the aluminum around the busted bolt.
You'll need this to break the corrosive bond between the aluminum to the surface of the bolt.

There isn't enough area on that small surface of the broken bolt for the epoxy to give you a lock tite bond.
It'll snap as soon as you pull on it.

Screwdriver dremel tool cut slot?
You might get lucky here, but again you aren't using the advantage of heat to spin the bolt outa the block.

The guy on that stud removal web page said it right.
Throw away the e-z outs , drills & whatever else your going to try and use.
Weld the washer & the nut on that snapped bolt & this PITA, unsavory job will be done in record time.
Good advise.

The advantage you have here is; after all of the in your driveway attempts fail, you can at least clean the area up, and still have the washer & nut welded to the broken bolt get it out.
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wehrbüchse
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if I use a propane torch to heat it up before using the right-angle impact driver on the slot?

The guy with the mig welder was pretty reluctant to try it.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could try the propane approach.

If your guy was reluctant to give it a try, what I would do is make a copy of the link mentioned here, and show it to him--then see what he has to say.
He might change his mind when he see's how easy it is.

From my prior experience, and plenty of successful busted , frozen stud removals, I think you should at least try and convince the guy with the welder to give it a shot.

You'll save yourself a bunch of aggravation and be on the road one heck of a lot faster.

Try the sloted bolt & some propane heat--
Try the epoxy.
As I mentioned, you can always go back to square one when you toss in the towel.

I just think that you'll be all done in record time without wasting a bunch of time trying to get that flush busted bolt removed using only "maybe " methods.
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Last edited by Terry Kay on Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wehrbüchse
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you're probably right. The slot I cut is more of a joke than I thought. If I cut it any deeper I'd cut too much into the surrounding aluminum. I just can't imagine that muffler guy being able to pull off that welding trick without it taking hours and getting awkward. The hole face is vertical, so how to hold the washer in place? Plus it's a small space to work in. I'm thinking about just ordering the GoWesty bracket, somehow salvaging the other hole, and rigging my own bracket from the front bolt where the alternator fits to the factory bracket down to the muffler brace bolt or to the lower power steering mount hole.
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wehrbüchse
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My headache just escalated into a nightmare.

I found a shop confident to do the weld. I went straight down to the store and bought the perfect belt to run the coolant pump without the alternator.

I got it installed, tight as a drum, pump RPMs up high, and viola: engine overheated in under 30 seconds.

It begins.

There's a decent-height cliff just close enough that I could probably make it over and end my decades-old Vanagon "dream" once and for all.
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Bercilak
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wehrbüchse wrote:
engine overheated in under 30 seconds.


What do you mean by "overheated"? I would guess you could run the engine for longer than 30 seconds without coolant and it wouldn't overheat, though I'll be interested to see what the wiser/more experience voices say.

Did steam blow? Did something break? Tell us what happened in more detail.

B.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intervention!!!!!!!! Quick, somebody over there go give him a ride in a Vanagon so he remembers how fun it is to look out the windshield of one of these!!! Heh.

Hmm. With the belt off, what's it feel like to turn the water pump pulley by hand? Any slack in the pulley - like worn bushings type movement?

DougM

PS - you're very close to getting over the hump here. I say ride the wave and don't let it crash atop you.
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You put a new belt on the water pump , and now it overheats right now?

Pump impeller shaft isn't spinning the impeller--busted water pump, no water, ahhh--who know's???
Pretty bizarre happening if the water pump is good, the thermostat is working & the engine is full of coolant.
Almost impossble for that engine to get that hot in 30 seconds.

Yep--maybe it's time for the big leap.
Laughing
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, if you're gonna do a "leap" strategy at least PM somebody over in Coeur d'Alene who has a trailer big enough to carry a Vanagon who can be waiting to catch it and give my Syncro something to snuggle up with in the garage........

Heh.

So let us know what it feels like when the pump pulley is spun by hand...

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS - you do realize you were within an hour or two of me out here? When you come back through be sure to PM me and we'll meet for coffee.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wehrbüchse wrote:
... engine overheated in under 30 seconds...


That seems rather unlikely.

When you say 'overheated' do you mean that the light on the temp gauge was blinking and the needle went to the far right?

If so, did the engine actually seem to be hot (or even very warm) after those 30 seconds?
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wehrbüchse
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IdahoDoug wrote:
Intervention!!!!!!!! Quick, somebody over there go give him a ride in a Vanagon so he remembers how fun it is to look out the windshield of one of these!!!


Oh, I remember. This fun vanagon moment was captured less than an hour before before the mountain meltdown:

[FIXED THE LINK]http://gallery.mac.com/buhl/100011/IMG_4873/web.jpg?ver=13047285140001

Here's me now:

http://gallery.mac.com/buhl/100011/IMG_5662/web.jpg?ver=13078274920001

I won't bore you with the rest of my headache, but this is one of FOUR Volkswagens currently broken down in my driveway. Wait, three in my driveway, and a fourth I just last night got a notice I must move from in front of my house last night before monday or it'll be towed. The Vanagon was my favorite and my great blue hope. I was so happy to see a glimmer at the end of the tunnel and then >blink!< it was replaced with the maniacal laughter of the great Satan. He likes to screw with my VWs a lot.

Did I mention I ran out of unemployment and the new landlord is a lot less friendly? Sad


Last edited by wehrbüchse on Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:18 pm; edited 3 times in total
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wehrbüchse
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
When you say 'overheated' do you mean that the light on the temp gauge was blinking and the needle went to the far right?

If so, did the engine actually seem to be hot (or even very warm) after those 30 seconds?


Yeah, while idling (which it doesn't do as well as when this happened a 1.5 months ago) the light started blinking and then the needle went way to the right as it did when the overflow tank was spraying in the mountains, and the engine got warm. I heard some gurgling. I managed to burn myself on the exhaust manifold thinking it was a coolant pipe (as if I should have been grabbing that to check for warmth either).

EDIT: It does seem it overheated pretty quickly, and all this business with the alternator bracket breaking sure adds to the confusion.

I let it idle for another 30 seconds with the reservoir cap off and I could see very light flow of coolant into the reservoir.

Ok, I'm gonna remove the "bypass belt," but before I do can you fellas recommend any experiments I should do while it's on? Check for warmth at the radiator? If so, at the bottom or top, etc.?

BTW: thanks for sticking with my thread. I'd be really screwed without you guys.
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wehrbüchse wrote:
...Yeah, while idling,,, the light started blinking and then the needle went way to the right ...


Couldn't work out what year/engine you have, but on my 84 any interuption of the the coolant sensor (the one in the pressure tank) such as low coolant, faulty sensor, disconnected wire or broken wire -- will cause the light to blink and peg the needle to HOT (just in case the light failed to get your attention. All this irrespective of actual engine temperature.

I'm thinking not all years operated this way -- but I suspect this may be what you were seeing (after 30 seconds) rather than actual overheating.

Quote:
...I let it idle for another 30 seconds with the reservoir cap off...


If you mean the pressure tank (and not the overflow bottle) then removing that cap will cause the light to blink and (on mine anyway) peg the needle.
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wehrbüchse
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
wehrbüchse wrote:
...Yeah, while idling,,, the light started blinking and then the needle went way to the right ...


Couldn't work out what year/engine you have, but on my 84 any interuption of the the coolant sensor (the one in the pressure tank) such as low coolant, faulty sensor, disconnected wire or broken wire -- will cause the light to blink and peg the needle to HOT (just in case the light failed to get your attention. All this irrespective of actual engine temperature.

I'm thinking not all years operated this way -- but I suspect this may be what you were seeing (after 30 seconds) rather than actual overheating.

Quote:
...I let it idle for another 30 seconds with the reservoir cap off...


If you mean the pressure tank (and not the overflow bottle) then removing that cap will cause the light to blink and (on mine anyway) peg the needle.



Mine is an 84 too. I just replaced the Expansion tank cap (you're right, not the refill tank) refilled the refill tank to the max line, reconnected the hoses, and started it up. It took exactly 45 seconds for the needle to go all the way to the right. It would seem goofy of them to not have the needle indicate true temperature when they already have the red light blinking.

I felt the pipes and hoses, and the pipe coming out of the right cylinder head right below the alternator was warm, but nowhere near too hot to touch. The large hose heading toward the radiator was warm coming right out of the thermostat body.

It definitely overheated when I was in the mountains, once I was in town it was REALLY hot and water was spraying, I'm pretty sure from the refill tank. But it could be that was just because the belt was too loose and not turning the pump enough. If so, is it a coincidence that some other thing, an electronic sensor connector, etc., is giving me a false overheating warning? Is 45 seconds too little time for it to overheat? Would seem so to me as well.

MAN I wish Bentley made an actual SERVICE Manual for these, as opposed to just the factory repair manual. I have both for my VW Foxes and never need the repair manual. The troubleshooting guides in the service manuals are amazing.

https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=753692
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wehrbüchse wrote:
...I just replaced the Expansion tank cap (you're right, not the refill tank) refilled the refill tank to the max line, reconnected the hoses, and started it up. It took exactly 45 seconds for the needle to go all the way to the right...


Is that pressurized tank absolutely full? I find that almost any air in there will cause the light to flash, etc.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Usually merely filling it is not enough -- have to rev the engine with the cap off, level goes down, fill the tank, put the cap on & then (and only then) let the RPMs return to idle.

Also -- seems like any remaining air in the system will eventually find its way to that tank so it may be a bit of a 'rinse, repeat' until all is well.
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wehrbüchse
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is most definitely NOT even half full. It looks just like the expansion tanks on my 80s Foxes that are usually half full.

I'm gonna go add water now! Should I do it pointed down a steep hill or something?

Thanks!
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wehrbüchse
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That did it! Right away, too. No more needle to the right!

Ahwahnee I profusely thank you!!!!!!!!!

Now I'm just back to needing the alternator back on.

Sorry to get all woe-is-me earlier, guys!!


EDIT: It's outside idling like a champ, the needle just to the left of the center, I'm ordering the GoWesty fix bracket tonight, driving it to the muffler shop to (god willing) get the stud 'welded' out on Monday, maybe drill & re-thread the other hole tonight or tomorrow, and hope for the best in between!

THANK YOU SAMBA BRETHREN!!
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wehrbüchse
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the triple back to back but I'm desperate for some reassurance here.

As usual, I shouldn't get cocky too quickly.

I took it out around the neighborhood up and down a couple of hills to see if that would free some more air and it is inexplicably really weak on acceleration and knocking/bucking really loudly, not like the normal out-of-nowhere strong vanagon bucking syndrome I get on the freeway, this was weird. When I floored it in neutral it sounded pretty weird.

I'm praying this was all just because the battery was running low without the alternator and that was affecting fuel injection or something. Any reassurance to offer?

The driver's side window suddenly and strangely won't roll up, never did that before, but I won't whine to you guys about that. Smile
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why don't you use a couple of dabs of silicone and glue the washer in place overnight. That way when you take it to the shop they won't have to spend a lot of time figuring out how to hold it in place.
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