Points adjustment

[msalling]

Is there a rule of thumb for adjusting the points gap that directly relates to CHT or efficiency? In other words, does more of a gap mean more or less spark? I adjust my distributor timing statically because my timing light sucks. When I set my points I use the smaller gap(.016?). Does .018 equal a longer spark an therefore higher temps?
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1982 Westfalia Vanagon, FI 2.0l

[Glenn]

Your timing directly relates to CHT... get a better timing light.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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[msalling]

Yep, you're right. AutoZone has them on sale right now, too!
What about the points gap?
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1982 Westfalia Vanagon, FI 2.0l

[Randy in Maine]

You can get the points close at 0.016", but the gold standard test really is the dwell meter.

[msalling]

i need a dwell meter, too. I know. The initial post was just a thought I had. I didn't know if points gap may equal higher CHT. .016 is what I've been using. Tomorrow- points, valves, check once again for vacuum leaks(post winter check), adjust rear brakes.
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1982 Westfalia Vanagon, FI 2.0l

[Randy in Maine]

If you end up buying one, buy this one as it has all of that handy other stuff that is so handy troubleshooting the FI system also. + it is cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/Actron-CP7677-Automotive-Tro...amp;sr=8-2

[msalling]

Thanks. Looks good... and cheap. I like the tach feature since i don't have one yet. A remote starter would be handy.
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1982 Westfalia Vanagon, FI 2.0l

[dlb]

my '82 air-cooled has slowly started running poorly (hard to start, stalling on idle, some backfiring through both the intake and exhaust, loss of power) over the last few weeks and a friend suggested looking at the dizzy and points breaker. i took a look today and found there was absolutely NO gap between the points when it is supposed to be opened by the dizzy shaft cams. i set it to the .4 mm as suggested in the manual and the van then fired up very easily, was revving quite high, and was backfiring through the intake. i tapped the throttle and it revved up and then fell down to a nice, normal idle rev range before slowly climbing back up to a high RPM, probably around 1500. i tapped the throttle again and checked the timing while at the low RPMs, which i had set to 8* BTDC a few months ago, and it was now around 20* BTDC. the bolt was still snug so i know the timing hadn't slipped. i set it back to 8* BTDC and the idle reached a good RPM but continued to backfire through the intake. then i had to leave for work, so that's where it sits right now.

i have played with timing and dizzies lots but never with a points-style ignition and have a few questions. here they are.

1) with no gap in the points, should the engine still have been able to run at all, even as poorly as it did before i set the gap?

2) could setting the gap change the ignition timing? i don't imagine so but am not sure why else the timing would have appeared to have changed. i know the mechanical advance increases advance in conjunction with the RPM but the timing was still about 12* too early even at a low RPM.

i don't have a tach/dwell meter but will grab one soon. thanks in advance for any help and suggestions!

[Wildthings]

First off you need to lube the cam and the rubbing block so your points will not close up on you. It works best if you find the special grease that is sold for this purpose. Delco makes it as does Bosch, used to be available just about anywhere, but now is getting hard to find.

Yes changing the point gab will cause the timing to change. You should check/reset your timing each time you adjust your points. You can not set your timing correctly according to the book if the engine will not idle down to the spec idle, this is one reason it is always best to set your timing at full mechanical advance, 28-32° BTDC at 3500+ rpm, all hoses removed from the dizzy.

Your popping and high idle is probably a vacuum leak.

[MarkWard]

From memory. As the gap decreases the timing advances btdc. As the gap opens the timing retards. The longer the points are closed, the better the saturation of the coil is. So, at idle the coil is actually working at it's optimum.

More advance creates more heat. It also puts the engine closer to the detonation threshold. Neither is a good thing. When thinking of timing, we adjust before TDC, but we really need to think about ATDC when combustion is optimized. I am referring to the point where optimum power happens on a stroke in relation to the piston position. Ideally, this happens as the piston has started it's downward travel.

A worn distributor shaft can drive you nuts trying to get the gap correct. A dwell meter will give you a good average of point gap on a running engine.
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☮️

[Wildthings]

[msalling]

I haven't been on here in a LONG while due to 3 computers crashes in very rapid succession and therefore not having one for months. Add crazy work hours and Mark has become a very dull boy.
However, let me give my two cents worth and tell what fixed my issues...

-Vacuum leaks. Get them fixed like today! Check the rubber elbow that is connected to your mass air flow sensor. My idle issues had a whole lot to do with lots of vacuum leaks here. Get a new one if yours isn't pliable or if you know it is old.

-My points gap would not stay adjusted properly and I was freaking out trying to figure out why. Well, come to find out, the threads in the plate(for the screw used to set the gap) were stripped. My friend tapped new threads, replaced the bolt and voila! The points gap has remained consistent and the dwell angle has as well.

Also, once my engine is warm the idle RPM's are within the proper range.

It took some time to discover these two things(namely the stripped threads) but once fixed solved my issues.

I'm not an expert but I like to relay my experiences and findings so that it can help someone else. Wildthings, RandyinMaine, Reluctantartist and numerous others are good ones to listen to and have all helped me tremendously.
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1982 Westfalia Vanagon, FI 2.0l

[dlb]

excellent information, thanks guys!

[msalling]

also, try replacing the fuel filter. Not that a clogged filter would cause your issues but at least you can rule out low fuel flow. It's cheap to do and a clogged filter once lead me to look at my ignition system... I took the filter off, blew it out and continued on my trip... after wasting time in the rain working on my vanagon in a restaurant parking lot and stressing over something so simple.
BTW- someone once told me, "It's always something simple. It's just FINDING that simple trouble that can be difficult."
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1982 Westfalia Vanagon, FI 2.0l

[md0nlewhy]

I can't seem to get to my points because this metal plate is in the way. I have practically destroyed it trying to remove it. I don't know what to do. I bent the hell out of this metal ring trying to pry an twist it off of my 81 Vanagon.

[djkeev]