Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
How much heat does a Westy poptop transmit to the interior?
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
aguabonita
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2005
Posts: 267
Location: Monterey, CA
aguabonita is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: How much heat does a Westy poptop transmit to the interior? Reply with quote

Hey folks,

Just wondering if you think it is worth it to paint the top of a Westy white in order to avoid transmitting too much solar heat to the occupants? Thinking out loud here, but it seems like the darker greys, blues, and burgundies would absorb a lot more energy than a white top. The question, in my mind, is whether that heat is then transmitted to the occupants via conduction.

For example, I have a Wolfram Grey westy that is getting painted and originally I was going to paint the top grey to match the body. But I'm sitting outside on a hot day and thinking to myself that it might be a better idea to paint it off white so that my kids and I don't fry when driving on hot days.

I'm sure there are a couple of factors that affect how much solar energy is transmitted to the interior (e.g. tinted window being one of them) so I guess I am just wondering what amount of that is attributed to the poptop.

Any thoughts and ideas appreciated.

Thanks!
_________________
'87 Westfalia, GW 2.2, and some other goodies
'90 Volvo 245
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PDXWesty
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6243
Location: Portland OR
PDXWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had mine paiinted dark to match the body and I have not noticed the difference.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
randywebb
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
randywebb is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

more than a couple of factors

but, the big deal is solar radiation thru the windows that then gets trapped inside the Van (it is re-radiated as IR, which cannot "get out" thru the glass)
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jake de Villiers
Samba Member


Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
Jake de Villiers is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: How much heat does a Westy poptop transmit to the interi Reply with quote

aguabonita wrote:
Hey folks,

Just wondering if you think it is worth it to paint the top of a Westy white in order to avoid transmitting too much solar heat to the occupants? Thinking out loud here, but it seems like the darker greys, blues, and burgundies would absorb a lot more energy than a white top. The question, in my mind, is whether that heat is then transmitted to the occupants via conduction.

For example, I have a Wolfram Grey westy that is getting painted and originally I was going to paint the top grey to match the body. But I'm sitting outside on a hot day and thinking to myself that it might be a better idea to paint it off white so that my kids and I don't fry when driving on hot days.

I'm sure there are a couple of factors that affect how much solar energy is transmitted to the interior (e.g. tinted window being one of them) so I guess I am just wondering what amount of that is attributed to the poptop.

Any thoughts and ideas appreciated.

Thanks!


We borrowed my Mom's Bordeaux Red Metallic Westy a couple of times before we got our Pastel White van and the dark top is a solar collector of the first order! Sleeping upstairs, we were awoken shortly after first light by the massive heat radiating from the raised roof. The white is MUCH better!

YMMV etc.
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9798
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually like the original white top on my 84 but the later colors and body trimmings seem to look better with the body-color tops.

What you might think about is just painting the very top surface white, leaving the sides of the fibreglass pop-up in body color. I think school buses are often painted this way (or maybe it's just the school buses in desert cities).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
randywebb
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
randywebb is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you only care about heat reflectance and not aesthetics, then use a high metallic content light silver color

solar radiation is usually divided into two wavebands - short (SW) and long wave (LW)
[not exactly the same as infrared]

almost everything in nature acts like a blackbody (perfect absorber and emitter) of LW rad. no matter what the "color" (yes, all humans are black in the LW spectrum)

the exceptions are metals, esp. polished or bright metal surfaces - they reflect LW

so a very metallic paint will reflect both SW and LW radiation and the light color will reflect SW

I'd go for window tint or shades first, but if every bit helps then...
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PDXWesty
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 6243
Location: Portland OR
PDXWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that's why I haven't noticed it because it was painted a grey metallic color. But then again, I don't sleep up top. I don't think anything would help though in 95+ heat if you're in the direct sun.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16501
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
I actually like the original white top on my 84 but the later colors and body trimmings seem to look better with the body-color tops.

What you might think about is just painting the very top surface white, leaving the sides of the fibreglass pop-up in body color. I think school buses are often painted this way (or maybe it's just the school buses in desert cities).


I did exactly this when I repainted my Titian Red Westy. White top with red sides (the red overlaps two inches onto the top so you cannot tell from the ground). HUGE difference in heat transfer. Very Happy Before it was like an oven in the sun with heat coming through the top, after it was much less.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kamzcab86
Samba Moderator


Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7916
Location: Arizona
kamzcab86 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: How much heat does a Westy poptop transmit to the interi Reply with quote

aguabonita wrote:
...it might be a better idea to paint it off white so that my kids and I don't fry when driving on hot days.


Is your concern for only when driving? Because driving my Orly Blue van across the desert area of I-40 last summer, it wasn't the roof roasting us it was the 95-degree air blasting in through the windows and dash.

Being parked is a different story; with no insulation, that fiberglass roof heats up right quick when the sun hits it in the morning (nice in the winter, sucks in the summer). Parked = no airflow to dissipate heat build-up.
_________________
~Kamz Anxious
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
Blue Vanagon 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16501
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: How much heat does a Westy poptop transmit to the interi Reply with quote

kamzcab86 wrote:
aguabonita wrote:
...it might be a better idea to paint it off white so that my kids and I don't fry when driving on hot days.


Is your concern for only when driving? Because driving my Orly Blue van across the desert area of I-40 last summer, it wasn't the roof roasting us it was the 95-degree air blasting in through the windows and dash.

Being parked is a different story; with no insulation, that fiberglass roof heats up right quick when the sun hits it in the morning (nice in the winter, sucks in the summer). Parked = no airflow to dissipate heat build-up.


I agree. It was when parked with the top popped that we notice the difference the most.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
aguabonita
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2005
Posts: 267
Location: Monterey, CA
aguabonita is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Ahwahnee wrote:
I actually like the original white top on my 84 but the later colors and body trimmings seem to look better with the body-color tops.

What you might think about is just painting the very top surface white, leaving the sides of the fibreglass pop-up in body color. I think school buses are often painted this way (or maybe it's just the school buses in desert cities).


I did exactly this when I repainted my Titian Red Westy. White top with red sides (the red overlaps two inches onto the top so you cannot tell from the ground). HUGE difference in heat transfer. Very Happy Before it was like an oven in the sun with heat coming through the top, after it was much less.



Interesting ideas. The lack of heat dissipation when the van is stationary really resonates with me.

Dobryan, I would love it if you posted a pic of you poptop. I had that same thought a while back and I would like to see what it looks like implemented. Did you fade it from red to white?

Gracias a todos,

Kebean
_________________
'87 Westfalia, GW 2.2, and some other goodies
'90 Volvo 245
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Noganav T3
Samba Member


Joined: August 11, 2010
Posts: 101
Location: California
Noganav T3 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can buy a temp guns pretty inexpensively these days HF has them on sale for around twenty bucks. Great for getting to the bottom of questions like this.

Bright white = much cooler top - huge.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
randywebb
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
randywebb is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: lack of heat dissipation

note that a metallic color will also have lower emissivity -- i.e. it will not radiate away heat as well
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.