head gasket blues

[funagon]

When I pry the cylinders off I use a LONG extension on the prybar. It's a three foot long steel pipe that I fit over the end of a foot-long prybar. With that much leverage you can push the cylinder and head apart. If you're using a prybar that's only a foot long, then you just won't get enough leverage. You need a cheater bar!
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1990 GL 7-passenger
2.2 liter WBX

[duderanchero]

i'll bang about with the mallet a few more times (if it doesn't work, it's still fun to do). how do you avoid prying the cylinders along with the heads? that's what mine was doing, but i'll try to rig up a longer lever if needed. boy, they're stuck in there but good.

[ftp2leta]

[funagon]

Look at the link I included on page one of this thread. There I have a description and photos of using a pry bar to separate the cylinder from the head. Your prying tool goes between the head and the tab sticking out of the cylinder. As you pry the two apart the head comes further off and the cylinder stays in place. It's hard to get enough levarage unless you have a cheater bar, such as a long piece of pipe, to increase leverage.
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1990 GL 7-passenger
2.2 liter WBX

[duderanchero]

ah, i see now. thanks, ben and fun. i didn't grasp that there were tabs. i'll get back to it then.

also, i've searched around the site, and i know that opinions differ on sealants, but--is it bad to use the reinz stuff included in my van cafe kit? i'll get the right stuff and loctite and permatex if i must. in fact, i tried to get them from lowe's tonight, but i guess they're on bar time.

[Mark]

[duderanchero]

mark, i'll try out the right stuff. but i'll stick with melinda's xxx habanero sauce--we've got a good thing going.

for now, i'm still trying to get the head off, and i'm worried i may have pulled it too far. it's less than an inch and a half out, but i can't seem to work it back in. the cylinders are really stuck in there. i have a little prybar, but even it won't fit into the tiny space between the tabs and the head. i'm going to think on it for a little while, or i'll probably go nuts.

here's a terrible picture of the stuck cylinders, and the head that might be pulled too far. i couldn't find a small lens, and i can't see what the picture looks like till i take it. so, i took 20, and this was the best one. seriously.

[morymob]

If both are stuck i find moving pistons so they are even in both cyls will give the max room to play with without pulling cyls past rings. My 'tool' is an old large screwdriver with the one edge ground at an angle, this edge goes to the tab on cyl and working back and forth loosens heads(tapping screwdvr with hammer).

[ftp2leta]

When the rubber mallet isn't enough, I use the big gun (sledgehammer) with a 2X4 piece of wood.

Ben
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Working with rust, grease, dirt and dust is a sad truth.
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[duderanchero]

i've got the pistons in mid-stroke. but i'm really worried that i pulled the head off too far, as i can't work it backwards at all. i've got about a two-inch gap now. is there a big noise when the ring pops off? i was working at prying the tabs, but i just kept dragging the whole head along, and didn't realize it was moving til it was too late.

[duderanchero]

here's a slightly less blurry picture of the cyls. we apparently do not have the means to take a picture from less than 4 feet away.

am i screwed?

**and also, is that an okay amount of corrosion on the sleeves? i really, really don't want to get into this stuff now if i don't have to.

[IdahoDoug]

Whoa, that's pretty far/close to the danger zone. One thing is it helps to mindlessly (because you think you're wasting time) pry from the top, then crawl under and pry from the bottom. Get up, pry from the top, and then crawl under again. And so on. You're slowly wiggling it off that way. If you merely pry from the top, you're not as effective and as the cylinder tilts it creates more friction to keep itself from coming off the head.

Dunno if you've pulled the cylinder too far but I'd proceed as if you have not. You have it well out enough to pry. Borrow or buy a $20 2 foot or more pry bar.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[duderanchero]

i did try switching between the top and underside, but they were simply not coming along at all. so, a dozen or so rotations, i finally decided to give it a good, long pry, and i slid the head out. i may have to get a legit pry bar, but what i've got rigged up is fairly torquey. i'll try to attack them tonight. i have somewhat lost hope of getting them loose.

[IdahoDoug]

If you can get a helper, or a lucky confluence of tool length and orientation lets you do this. I was able to apply very hard prying force and then hammer away on the head with a plastic hammer. The vibrations seem to redouble the prying effect and break the ring of grundge loose. It's frustrating but suddenly you'll be grinning from ear to ear.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[duderanchero]

thanks, doug. i'm trying to picture myself atop this mountain, but i can't help but feel like old sisyphus.

i wish i had ripped out the remains of the water jacket earlier, as i think that would have prevented the cylinders from getting quite so stuck. there were chunks of rubber wedged right against the sleeves.

i'm pretty sure the pistons are out too far, since there's a pretty definite point i cannot push them back past.

my technique now is to pry with one hand, and shake the head vigorously with the other. i'll let everyone know if it works.

i better go get my hands dirty again.

[duderanchero]

at the last attempt, there came something like a gasp--like a gurgle without the urgle--from the engine side.

i'm going to get a pry bar tomorrow, and i'll see what i can do. it feels like the cylinders are coming out, and so are the pistons. we might just have to take the damn truck.

if i had the $500, i'd happily give it to pete the mechanic to make this all better.

[duderanchero]

still getting nowhere. i have a strong feeling i've moved the cylinders too far. is it better to keep knocking things around with the head still on, or can i just pull the whole deal off? because this is seeming like lunacy, to keep futzing around with these tabs when i feel like i'm gonna have to do the piston rings, etc.

focaccia. shitake.

[ftp2leta]

[shadetreetim]

Don't give up yet. As long as you haven't pulled it out so far you can see the wrist pin and/or the rings, you should be able to push it back on after you've separated the head. I wouldn't bother trying to push it back on right now.

This type of stuff always sucks. Just keep at it.

I thought everything was bigger in Texas, why is your prybar not big enough?
_________________
Tim Potts

Doing my best every time I drive it to dispel the myth these Vanagons have to be slow!


'89 Vanagon Bluestar/Country Homes 1.8T & .77 4th
'74 Jeep CJ5

[duderanchero]

i'll keep at it for a little while longer, then i'll yank it out. my prybar is a chisel which fits into a socket which is connected to an extension bar (~2' total). i couldn't find a long prybar that was narrow enough to fit in between the head studs. but mine has pretty much no wobble, and it feels like it's giving me adequate leverage. i think the badly rusted sleeve is the problem.

i can't see the rings yet, but i can feel the piston with my fingers far enough down there. at least i think that's what i'm feeling.