head gasket blues

[duderanchero]

please kill me.

after some adventures while waiting for parts, i returned to the head gasket installation. while torquing nut #8 with the cheap piece of shit torque wrench i got from o'reilly's (which replaced the expensive piece of shit wrench i returned to lowe's), i snapped the head stud. i was applying very gentle pressure, but i suspect the calibration on this wrench is way off.

is there any way around this? the complications of this project are seriously draining the life out of me. i need to get out from under this van and out of this town. i probably also need to smoke a bowl and mellow out, but that's not an option right now. i'm considering jb welding the head nut in place. i know this is insane. the head won't be supported as it should, but i will lose my mind if i don't get this done with, one way or another.

what's funny is that i really enjoy doing the work, in the spaces between catastrophic events. but i'm about ready to give it up.

thanks for any words of advice.

**after some deliberation, i agree with myself that jb welding the head nut in place would, in fact, be insane, and mostly pointless. i have not, however, ruled out the notion of jb welding the stud back together. i haven't yet looked at the other end, because i'm still trying to fool myself that i won't necessarily have to take the head back off. i used most of a tube of the right stuff putting it on, and that stuff's expensive. plus, getting the push rod tubes in place was tricky, as was keeping the cylinder sealing rings from falling out. shit, am i gonna have to buy new rings? just kill me, really. i can't hold out for the mayan eschaton.

[morymob]

Hold still a sec, 'BANG'!! By the way forget the J B weld here, gonna need to replace stud, never replaced one but others have chimed in here previously, try a search.

[xoo00oox]

Well that sucks. Now the engine will most likely need to come out. The broken studs can be major project to get out. I have scrapped good engine cases because of them. Check for pitting on the other studs before bolting the head on if you are even able to remove the broken one.

[duderanchero]

thanks, mory--i needed that hole in the head like i need a hole in the head

xo, i've got a few inches of stud left to play with here (er, um...), so i'm going to explore my other options first. i'll try jb-ing a nut onto the remaining stud for some leverage, and if that doesn't hold, i'll ask the neighbors who's got a mig.

[duderanchero]

while i still have it open, is there any way to check the lifters in an engine that hasn't been started for some time? mine depress completely--with no springiness whatsoever--but it's been sitting for weeks.

incidentally, anyone ever notice that you can play taps, the nbc dings, and reveille (if you're really good) on the head studs?

[IdahoDoug]

Just had to check in to say you've got a great attitude - NBC bongs, indeed.....heh.

I'll be pulling my lifters in a couple days to clean and refill them. I believe there is a way to check them in the section that shows how to clean and refill them in the Bentley.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[duderanchero]

so there i was, putting the key in the ignition after much too much time and far too many complications. she cranked right up, and then the idle began falling and surging, falling and surging. i wasn't too surprised by this, since she had been sitting for some time. i decided 15 seconds was long enough to prove that i had at least put everything back together (and i had only put a gallon of coolant in, not feeling up to the task of bleeding the system after 40+ hours of being awake), so i killed it, feeling some satisfaction with a job done, and pretty well. i stepped out of the van, looked to the back, and saw an enormous, growing puddle on the ground--coolant! i groaned. when i got to it, i could not fail to detect a strong odor of wintergreen, and it immediately occurred to me that i had indeed forgotten to do one thing: put in the oil filter.

so, i used the four and a half quarts of castrol and marvel mystery oil to degrease my tools. and i'll bite the bullet and ask yet another stupid question: anyone ever put their tools in the dishwasher?

as to the van, i'm going to wait til morning to refill the oil and see how she'll do. which is what i should have done in the first place. sleep deprivation and left brain functionality are clearly inversely proportional.

[mm289]

oh man, I really feel for you, I have followed this post and ridden your tidal wave of emotions, if it helps your last post made me chuckle a lot, so at least you have given me a laugh today.

We have all done similar things when re-building, its so difficult to resist the urge to turn it over when it is gone midnight and you are knackered, just cause you want to see if it works

Hope you feel better after some slepp and it all goes ok, with new oil AND filter

MM

[duderanchero]

i'm sure this thread hasn't been very technically instructive, so i'm glad it at least served to brighten your day a little, mm! i hope everyone else in the world has a much easier time than i've had with this.

i only got 2 hours of sleep, and it's another 100-degree day here in beautiful, shadeless west texas, so i think i'll take a nap and let things cool down before i attack the van--with love, of course. i'll let everyone know what other buffoonery i manage to get into.

[Phildor]

I'm about to do the gaskets on both heads on my WBX here (hopefully) in the next week or two- as well as do a new exhaust, and I will say from a technical standpoint, this emotional roller coaster of a topic still seemed to be abundant in tips that I trust will save me quite a headache!

Did you use any of the other gaskets in your kit beyond the water jacket and head gasket? Are there many gaskets and seals that seemed accessible and replaceable by simply pulling a head off with the engine still mounted?

I'm sincerely praying that, when I pull these heads off (specifically the left one, as the water jacket is leaking) that I have no real corrosion or pitting and that the head will not have to be resurfaced.

What was your final decision for sealant? (I think I missed it in reading this thread.)

Here's hoping that, in the week that has passed, your situation has improved!

[IdahoDoug]

Dude, also checking in on ya. How's it going? I'm very near the end on my own saga ane you havent posted in a week...?
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[duderanchero]

phildor, i just saw your message. after i have achieved some , i will attempt a cogent reply to your cogent questions. i may or may not have useful information for you.

doug, the latest thing i did was to strip the head off the oil drain plug. i do this kind of stuff a lot. turns out, someone put an m15x2 in there, which explained why the m14x1.5 didn't fit. an m15 plug seems to be hard to find, so i'm hoping a 5/8" is close enough. mostly, i'm replacing bulbs and little things like that. i probably ought to adjust my lifters, but after reading of your travails, i might just go for close enough with them, too. once i get my brand-new eurovan fan resistor spliced in there, i'm hoping i can call this summer project done. please, no more surprises.

[duderanchero]

phildor, are you going with the RMW stainless exhaust? i'd love to get that setup--it would be awfully nice to get my van to pass inspection . sadly, i don't have a spare $1600 lying about.

i used all the gaskets in the reinz kit that applied to the passenger side (jacket, metal cylinder sealing rings, exhaust/intake gaskets, cylinder o-rings). it was easy to replace the o-ring at the base of the cylinder, since i accidentally pulled the one off, then intentionally pulled the other. some on here have said that you can stretch the o-ring over the cylinder. but the old one will be toast, and i don't know how you'd scrape it out without removing the cyls. if you ask me, that o-ring doesn't seem like a super-vital component--but nobody asked me.

if you want to do a bang-up job while you're in there, go ahead and pull the cylinders so you can replace the piston rings, most especially the oil scrapers--mine were very brittle. i got the grant piston ring set from van cafe (u.s.-made, half the price of the german ones), and i prefer the design of the oil scraper--with a wavy piece of solid metal, rather than a spring. i didn't replace the compression rings because the expander tool i had turned out to be useless, and i was tired of postponing things due to lacking the proper tools. they looked okay anyhow. some people would measure the piston ring gap, and i'll bet they're right to do so. i didn't. do make sure you point the rings' gaps away from each other. i realized in the end that the hose clamp i had was wide enough to compress both the compression rings by itself. but if you use this technique, you'll have to figure out a way to extract it again--no problem on the first one, but a real pita on the second. i would wind two wires around the clamp at 3 and 9 o'clock, and use these to finagle the hose clamp into position to cut it with knipex cutters and retrieve it. or, if you're not a broke-ass cheapskate, buy a friggin' split piston ring compressor from snap-on and disregard the last three sentences. you can spend the hours you'll save enjoying life somewhere other than the floor of your garage.

if you just want to replace your water jacket and avoid opening cans upon cans of worms, visualize healthy, happy oil scrapers and go about your work.

as to water jacket sealant, i used The Right Stuff, by permatex. it's lovely. ben told me to use it. he also told me not to worry about the head pitting (there will likely be some), because the right stuff will fill in the pits as it seals the head to the case (as long as everything's nice and clean). unfortunately, he told me this after i had already filled the pits with jb weld and sanded everything down smooth. jb weld is not solid metal. i don't like to use it unless i am out of my mind with frustration, with no other options in sight. in the future, i'll follow ben's advice, rather than risk making my sealing surface uneven.

for the head nuts, i used permatex 518 (also per ben's rec). that yellow stuff in the reinz kit is actually french's mustard. in late autumn of 1948, as part of the marshall plan, west germany received several billion barrels of surplus mustard. the germans discovered with dismay that the french's couldn't hold up to wursts and kraut as a spicy brown will, so they tried sending it back. they were informed that this would be taken as a refusal of all benefits of the plan. they sorely needed the money to rebuild their shattered infrastructure--what could they do? a young entrepreneur by the name of victor reinz came up with the idea of smuggling it out an ounce at a time, in tiny white tubes. in australia, they'd market it as cuticle cream! in north america, delousing ointment! in south america, toothpaste! and they'd sell it the world over to volkswagen owners as a head nut sealant, and they would buy it simply because it's german, and what's german is good! the young reinz was swept up by the grateful throngs, who carry him shoulder-high to this day.

i cite wikipedia for the above.

i hope this post has been somewhat informative. let me know when you start your project thread, phildor! i very sincerely hope it goes unbelievably smoothly. that sentence was half adverbs.

i'm really glad i own a vanagon. everyone who has responded to my idiotic questions and whining has been really helpful to me, and there's no way i could do this stuff without you. i've browsed through other mechanical forums, and they're generally full of know-it-alls, one-uppers, and outright a-holes. we have plenty of disagreements on here, but they mostly seem to be in an attempt to get things right--to help someone else get it right, and not to just belittle the doofus who just stripped his dozenth bolt (and that's only counting the ones he told you about).

thanks! thanks! thanks! to everyone who's helped me out! i'll do my best to pass it along. did anyone actually read this far?

james
(who just discovered there's a member by the name of ranchero, to whom i apologize for unknowingly copycatting)

[duderanchero]

oh, and you'll definitely want to replace the valve cover gasket, too. it will come out in big plastic chunks, much like an original oil crankcase breather tower o-ring might. i like the new cork design. i like cork. am i still awake?

[duderanchero]

holy shit, it runs! i can't say for sure that it goes anywhere, but it cranks up and keep cranking. there was some issue of clouds of smoke filling my entire garage (not the usual kind), but i'm pretty sure this was just my excessive application of wd40 burning off the exhaust pipes. it's a 20-year-old vehicle, yes, but why does the exhaust look like it came off a model t?

the first couple of starts, the idle surged and fell through several cycles, then died. i messed around with the idle mixture screw, eventually turning it all the way in. now, the idle hums steadily at 1k--a little high, but it feels so much smoother than before, i may just leave it there. i'm not sure if the idle adjustment was the key, or if i just needed to blow the cobwebs out.

either i screwed up my temp 2 sensor, or i'm running much cooler than before (and i only have half the coolant in at this point, though it's mostly glycol). after 3 or so minutes of running, the needle had not moved. i did seal up a whole bunch of little leaks in the cooling system, tightening screws along the engine bay rail that the PO must have thought were close enough. i connected a bicycle pump to the expansion tank nipple and found these leaks by sound. my thermostat housing had not been sealing properly, so i gave the o-ring a generous serving of the right stuff. i'll probably need a new one someday, but this seems to be working. i'm not a purist, and i need cheap fixes for now. my low-speed fan hasn't kicked in yet, but i did jumper the fan switch to test my new, spliced-in eurovan resistor (thanks, van cafe/peter!), and it was sooo nice to hear it go. especially after my eardrums were assaulted by the high-speed fan.

so, i'm just happy to finally have some good news to report! here's hoping i'm mostly done with this little project; it's about time i took a trip...

[Petervw]

I read every word and thanks for sharing..

[duderanchero]

i'm glad my ramblings found an audience. i hope i'll look back on this experience one day and laugh. like when i drop a subie conversion in there in two days flat.

[The Raven]

Just thought I would add this although the issue has been resolved.

Get a quality torque wrench if you are going to be torquing anything. you can skimp on the wrenches, screwdrivers and hammers.....but when you need faith that the damn thing will click at 50nm....you should go with a good name like Proto, Snap-on or Matco. For health and if you can see the dial...I like the torque-o-meter from snapon. These things sell for about $100 on ebay.

[shadetreetim]

I don't remember reading what you finally did about the head bolt that snapped? Maybe I missed it while cheering young Victor Reinz entrepreneurial spirit.

I have to admit I still use an old school pointer torque wrench. No click type in my tool box. Not because I don't like them but I've had this one for years and I'm a cheap bastard.
_________________
Tim Potts

Doing my best every time I drive it to dispel the myth these Vanagons have to be slow!


'89 Vanagon Bluestar/Country Homes 1.8T & .77 4th
'74 Jeep CJ5

[duderanchero]

as to the torque wrenches, i think you're right, raven--there is no substitute for a well-built, properly calibrated tool. but i'm with tim for the time being--the $10 pointer i picked up from my flaps has served me well enough, and i don't have to worry so much about knocking it around. i do recommend that anyone buying a clicker-type wrench tests it before purchasing. the one i bought from lowe's had no click, and that's how i snapped a head stud. i went to exchange it, and found that the other one on the shelf had no click either. some careless forklift operator probably smashed down a whole pallet of them.

tim, i'm very glad you caught that omission, because it's one of the few points on which this thread may be technically helpful. i used a lisle bolt remover set (http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?product=67), which i picked up at sears. irwin makes a similar product. for those who don't know how they work, you just hammer the clawed opening down onto your stuck bolt, then use a socket wrench to turn it out. what i thought was going to be a real nightmare took all of five minutes, once i had the proper tool for the job. i got a replacement stud from van cafe. i wish i had remembered to tap the threads first, because it went in with much squeaking, and i couldn't back it out once i started--too much resistance for the double-nut technique, especially since i was worried about breaking the new stud.