Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ

[Wildthings]

[Mr. Unpopular]

I'd be curious to know how you determined a rubber hose was better at resisting fire than stainless steel and teflon.
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"In any racing engine, the nearer you are to it disintegrating, the better it's performance will be"
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[Mr. Unpopular]

I never said it was stainless steel hose. I asked how rubber would be better at resisting fire than stainless steel and teflon, which is a commonly available product.

How many cooking products are made of rubber? How many are made of stainless steel and coated in teflon?
_________________
"In any racing engine, the nearer you are to it disintegrating, the better it's performance will be"
-Keith Duckworth, creator of the Ford/Cosworth DFV

[Wildthings]

First off I said this "The AN hose I tested was not teflon hose though", as the AN hose I tested was rubber hose with a SS braid over it and not a SS covered Teflon hose.

I cut equal lengths of several different hose and suspended them in a "U" shape. I added a set amount of gas to each hose and then positioned each hose in turn over an open flame and used a stop watch to see how long it would take to burn through the hose and ignite the gas inside. I did this to several different hoses, 30r7, 30r9, marine fuel hose, and the AN hose. All the hoses had the same nominal size, though the marine hose was thicker walled and thus had a larger OD. I had few expectations for anything but the marine hose and the AN hose which I expected to do well, and was quite surprised when both the marine and AN hose burnt through in about the same time as the 30r7 hose, while the 30r9 handled the flame for several times as long.

[raygreenwood]

Everyone gets this idea that stainless hose must be superior because....its sheathed in stainless.

That may be very far from the truth. Having worked on a LARGE amount of CIS injection....75-135 psi all day long.....I can tell you that the ONLY reason they used the stainless braid was to have external abrasion resistance to keep vibration from weakening the outer plies.

If you weaken an outer ply...it allows a bubble to push outward from the inside and it will split the outside and burst.

The braided lines have only marginally higher burst pressure because the braid bolsters the hose inside and keeps the hose from swelling during pressure excursions...important with CIS...because main line pressure was high but control and feed pressure was variable.

Inside the braided lines was the exact same fuel hose that you had in the cotton braided lines.

I would not use teflon core fuel lines. Teflon has crappy impact resistance...virtually no kink resistance ....and a much less bend radius allowance. In short ...teflon is brittle and easily cracked. You would have to clamp the lines down in runs so that bend radius and vibration were controlled.

I see no advantage whatsoever to teflon fuel lines. There are some advantages as noted for stainlless covered rubber fuel lines.....but these days with standard fuel injection pressures being far less than CIS fuel injection pressure....there is no real need. Abrasion resistance yes......but the real worry these days is internal chemical resistance.

Yes...teflon has that....but the risks of cracks far outweigh the usefulness of its chemical resistance.

If you want high pressure and chemical resistance and are afraid of rubber...simply look at what the factories are doing. Go to nylon lines. No fuels will touch them, highly abrasion resistance, great bend radius, higher pressures than rubber....equal to teflon in that respect....and cheap as dirt.
Ray

[Tcash]

Link

[Jim Bear]

'74 bus, stock dual carbs and everything else. I am planning on going with the following Gates Barricade hoses:

for the 5mm, the 3/16": http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GATY/2731...;ppt=C0222

For the 7mm, the 5/16":http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GATY/2731...;ppt=C0222

Question, am I right?
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[busdaddy]

5/16" = 8mm, you may be better off with 1/4" if you want a tight fit. 1/4" fits loosely on the smaller fittings but does clamp down OK, 3/16" would definitely be better.
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[Schwing]

I am about to buy some low pressure gates barricade for my 72 that will eventually have dual carbs once I build the motor.

Ratwell calls for the following:

5.5mm - 4.2'
7mm - 14.2"

Given bus daddy's recommendation sounds like I need to buy a couple feet of 1/4" and about 5' of the 3/16"?

[rockerarm]

schwing, the dual carbs you chose and if you are using an electric fuel pump may dictate the fuel hose size. Also the electric pumps location. Why not use as much metal line as possible so you can reduce the cost of the hose replacement, as hose replacement will be a maintenance issue.
Hope this helps, Bill.

[telford dorr]

Just finished a FI replumb using the Gates Barricade FI hose. Some notes, probably applicable to the non-FI hose:

Good points:
- there is NO gas smell using this hose. It definitely does not allow any fume penetration.
- the 225 psi rating is way more than needed for a FI system. It handles the fuel pressure very well.
- the hose seems quite durable, and I wouldn't worry about accidental hose damage from minor impacts, etc. [That said, I would definitely protect it from sharp cutting edges. But then again, I'd do that with any hose...]

Bad points:
- it has a tendency to kink on small bend radiuses (radii?) (like from the injector to the metal distribution pipes, and at the cold start valve).
- it cannot take fuel on its outer covering very well. I had a slow leak at the fuel pump (operator error...) By the time I caught it, the outer covering was noticeably swollen and gummy. Had to cut the hose back and reattach to repair. Makes me wonder how grease / oil will affect the outer covering, long term.
- it definitely needs the proper clamps - not the cheap worm screw things they sell at the FLAPS. Don't cheap out on this detail. "Buy the best and cry once..."
- the hose is pretty stiff - it does not stretch or compress too well (i.e. it fits what it fits). If you need to plumb between two different size hose barbs, use two different hose sizes and couple using a (buy / make) metal hose adapter (see this post). Don't try to squash it down with a hose clamp (especially on high pressure FI systems).
- it is a shame that they don't make this stuff in true metric sizes.

Bottom line: when used within its limitations, this hose works well, and I would recommend it over the old fabric covered hose in a heartbeat. Just be aware of what it likes and doesn't like.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[Hoody]

My experience has been that this fuel line is the ONLY go to fuel line. No there are no metric sizes....but on my 78
Everything is within a mm of fitting perfectly. I would also advise anyone who Is switching over to this to just buy the FI hose and be done with it. Regardless if your running carbs or not. ABA clamps are absolutely paramount to long term success.

[Schwing]

[obnoxiousblue]

Depends on the bus' engine. My 2.0 FI needed way more than 10.
Figure the fuel tank to the pump (2) pump to drivers side fuel rail (2) rail to each injector (4) tail to CSV 2, CSV to pass side fuel rail (2), pass side fuel rail to each injector (4), fuel rail to regulator (2), to return (2).
I just woke up, and only half thought through what I'm typing, so apologies if I left something off.
_________________
Mike
1964 Beetle
2001 Eurovan Camper

[Schwing]

[telford dorr]

When I did mine, I used Oetiker 5/8" (15.7mm) 167 series single ear clamps (Amazon), with just enough removable clamps so that major components (injectors, CSV, regulator, etc.) could be disassembled for service. The ear clamps are much smaller and easier to work around. The only time the ear clamps would need to be removed is for a total hose replacement.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[alikatcraig]

I have seen 5mm ID/7mm OD nylon fuel line as Ray mentioned. Material is PA11 and at $11 for 5 meters it is CHEAP. Does anyone have experience with its longevity though?
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1967 Ghia
1971 Deluxe Microbus
1974 Convertible Bug
1973 Standard Bug
1998 Mexican Bug

[Vova]

Lots of great info here. I have a 78 with FI. What's the recommended kit for my setup?

Anything cheaper then this: http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=18629&cat=&page=1
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[Hoody]

Don't bother buying a kit. All you need is the correct size Gates Barricade for each of your applications. I did the entire system in FI Gates Barricade. I can't remember the size hose. I did everything from the evap system to all of the fuel lines underneath. The only hose if I remember correctly that isn't available through Gates is the the fuel pump to filter. Ratwell shows all of the sizes needed. Buy the correct ABA clamps. Be especially aware of the hose behind the drivers side rear wheel well. This is often over looked. The hose isn't expensive nor are the correct clamps. Do it correctly and you have piece of mind knowing your set up is much better then it was originally.

[Tcash]