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Terminatez
Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2015
Posts: 340
Location: Sun Valley, CA
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 Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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I found some ACDelco fuel lines which seem to be... Gates Barricade and the spec list is more or less the same. In case anyone has easier access to ACDelco than Gates. Can someone else confirm they're the same?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ado-32212
http://www.acdelco.com/content/dam/ACDelco/North-A...CDelco.pdf
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1972 Westfalia P30 hardtop Campmobile [On-going Restoration]
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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Looks fine to me for a carbureted engine. |
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EZ Gruv
King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 8544
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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Figured this is as good a place as any to ask...does anyone recall how many feet of 7mm fuel hose is needed to replace everything on the stock 2.0 FI motor (my bus is a '77)?
After 5 or 6 years, I figure it's time to do it again, just don't recall how much it takes.
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| EZ Gruv wrote: |
Figured this is as good a place as any to ask...does anyone recall how many feet of 7mm fuel hose is needed to replace everything on the stock 2.0 FI motor (my bus is a '77)?
After 5 or 6 years, I figure it's time to do it again, just don't recall how much it takes. |
thnx mayor ratwell
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FuelHoses.html |
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tootype2crazy
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Joined: October 08, 2007
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Location: St. Louis Missouri
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mainstreetprod
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Joined: March 09, 2017
Posts: 313
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| EZ Gruv wrote: |
Figured this is as good a place as any to ask...does anyone recall how many feet of 7mm fuel hose is needed to replace everything on the stock 2.0 FI motor (my bus is a '77)?
After 5 or 6 years, I figure it's time to do it again, just don't recall how much it takes. |
I did this a couple of months ago and looked up the email where I ordered Barricade from O'Reilly. It was only 4 feet of fuel line. As I recall, I even had a few inches left over. But I didn't do the vent lines, only the fuel delivery. |
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rockerarm
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Joined: December 16, 2009
Posts: 3552
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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I think it is just rebranded Gates' hose. It seems odd to me that Gates with their name Barricade on the hose followed with a "R" circled would let Delco sell it under their name. I am currently able to buy Gates Barricade 1/4", pn 27313, for $2.50 per foot from NAPA or O'Reilly in the Los Angeles area. |
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mainstreetprod
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Joined: March 09, 2017
Posts: 313
Location: Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| rockerarm wrote: |
I think it is just rebranded Gates' hose. It seems odd to me that Gates with their name Barricade on the hose followed with a "R" circled would let Delco sell it under their name. I am currently able to buy Gates Barricade 1/4", pn 27313, for $2.50 per foot from NAPA or O'Reilly in the Los Angeles area. |
Wow, 5/16 " cost me $4.99 foot ordered in to O'Reilly in TN. |
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rockerarm
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Joined: December 16, 2009
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Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| mainstreetprod wrote: |
| rockerarm wrote: |
I think it is just rebranded Gates' hose. It seems odd to me that Gates with their name Barricade on the hose followed with a "R" circled would let Delco sell it under their name. I am currently able to buy Gates Barricade 1/4", pn 27313, for $2.50 per foot from NAPA or O'Reilly in the Los Angeles area. |
Wow, 5/16 " cost me $4.99 foot ordered in to O'Reilly in TN. |
It could be correct. Gates has two spec Barricade hoses in the 5/16" size. The 50psi is $2.50 per foot and the 225psi is $5 per foot.
You can look at this link and possibly compare part numbers with your receipt.
http://www.gates.com/oreilly/PDFs/Fuel%20Systems.pdf |
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kc7mzj
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2011
Posts: 6
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| Does anyone have any experience with CODAN hose out of the UK which is rated J30 R9 and is available in 5.6mm ID? I found a source on the web and the size is especially attractive to me for carburated Type 1 applications like my 71 bay. |
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mr matt
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Joined: May 26, 2005
Posts: 819
Location: southeast Pa
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
...................
If you want high pressure and chemical resistance and are afraid of rubber...simply look at what the factories are doing. Go to nylon lines. No fuels will touch them, highly abrasion resistance, great bend radius, higher pressures than rubber....equal to teflon in that respect....and cheap as dirt.
Ray |
| alikatcraig wrote: |
| I have seen 5mm ID/7mm OD nylon fuel line as Ray mentioned. Material is PA11 and at $11 for 5 meters it is CHEAP. Does anyone have experience with its longevity though? |
I am curious about this, is/has anyone given this a try? IF impervious to gas, then this would negate the various year replacment requirement...
thanks |
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| Vanagons use plastic lines of some sort as do other cars. Can't say if they are nylon or some other polymer. |
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
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Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| mr matt wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
...................
If you want high pressure and chemical resistance and are afraid of rubber...simply look at what the factories are doing. Go to nylon lines. No fuels will touch them, highly abrasion resistance, great bend radius, higher pressures than rubber....equal to teflon in that respect....and cheap as dirt.
Ray |
| alikatcraig wrote: |
| I have seen 5mm ID/7mm OD nylon fuel line as Ray mentioned. Material is PA11 and at $11 for 5 meters it is CHEAP. Does anyone have experience with its longevity though? |
I am curious about this, is/has anyone given this a try? IF impervious to gas, then this would negate the various year replacment requirement...
thanks |
Yes...PA-11 is THE fuel line nylon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon_11
There is no need to verify. Yes...I have plenty of experience with it....as do now more cars than VW has ever produced.
It is used by nearly 100% of all OEM's in the past decade for primary out of body tunnel fuel line runs. Most still use steel lines through the tunnel where out of site cracks or breaks can contaminate the air and produce an enclosed flammable atmosphere.
That being said they are VERY abrasion resistant...impervious to EVERY motor fuel on the market from E-85 through diesel.
Many manufacturers use nylon 100% for all free lines except for very tight radius anti-vibration links between fuel rail and feed line. In those cases they use high pressure, reinforced fluoroelastomer rubber hose like barricade for short lengths with swaged couplings.
In fact VW/Audi group, BMW and Mercedes for sure....have used exclusively Nylon 11 for all free run lines since the late 90's. This means between pump outlet at the tank, to filter, for return...and for instance on my Golf and Jetta since no lines run through the tunnel...the fuel lines are nylon all the way to the body cavity just outside engine compartment.
From there they have a short run of steel because it has many sharp turns.
I have never had a problem with nylon line breakage on any car I have worked on...Ford included. Ford uses a huge volume of Nylon as well.
However...there are some bits and pieces you will want to observe.
It MUST be properly grommeted on body openings and fastened down properly wherever it goes. You do not want long lengths flapping around. This goes for rubber line too.
You must observe proper bend radius (unless you are using a heat molded nylon tube with a tight bend). Keep it a reasonable distance from high heat. It should NEVER get above 185 F....so you do not use it inside of an enclosed engine compartment. Same rules as plastic fuel line filters.
You have to work out proper joining...but that really is not an issue. Most of your components can have female push fittings installed with pressure unions of virtually any size and shape available on line. So that means fuel pump, steel lines through the body, fuel pressure regulator....can all easily have fittings threaded onto them that simply allow you to push-lock the nylon fuel line into them just like factory.
If you can guarantee that your engine compartment will never exceed 185F...you can install unions with female push-locks on the ends of the fuel rails at each side. I am not sure yet how to attache to the factory CSV. The regulator inlet would also be a pressure union with female fitting.
Ray |
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mr matt
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Joined: May 26, 2005
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Location: southeast Pa
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:21 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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OK, thanks,
I just got my first bus not long ago, so am learning quite a lot... starting from nothing..... especially about the fuel injection system
Seems like temp could be an issue then(?) - ( not sure how high the temp gets in a bay FI compartment.) other than that, seems to be pretty nice. |
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mr matt
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Posts: 819
Location: southeast Pa
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| Would be very intererested in where nylon could be used in 1977 FI bus, - I have no idea on connectors, fittings, etc (yet) not sure how much would be involved. Read many of Ray's comments in diff post areas on this, seems no one has yet tried...(?) |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| mr matt wrote: |
OK, thanks,
I just got my first bus not long ago, so am learning quite a lot... starting from nothing..... especially about the fuel injection system
Seems like temp could be an issue then(?) - ( not sure how high the temp gets in a bay FI compartment.) other than that, seems to be pretty nice. |
I would guess that it is about the lowest of any vehicle out there, maybe a water cooled Vanagon might be lower, don't really know. |
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raygreenwood
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Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| mr matt wrote: |
OK, thanks,
I just got my first bus not long ago, so am learning quite a lot... starting from nothing..... especially about the fuel injection system
Seems like temp could be an issue then(?) - ( not sure how high the temp gets in a bay FI compartment.) other than that, seems to be pretty nice. |
I would guess that it is about the lowest of any vehicle out there, maybe a water cooled Vanagon might be lower, don't really know. |
I would think so too.
Those big scoops on the sides...I think Colin and others have noted that the ambient inside even in hot weather rarely gets over 130 F. But...the engine case itself gets hot so there can be some radiant or contact heat issues.
I think I will take my lead with nylon by watching the OEM's. They use tons of nylon tubing inside of the engine compartment ...but most is a respectful distance from the hot metal engine surfaces....mostly around the firewall area and over the top of the engine.....and rarely (but sometimes yes) do I see fuel under pressure piped right up to and connected to the manifold in nylon. Of course most all of them have fuel rails. Ray |
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| I ordered http://vwparts.aircooled.net/5mm-Fuel-Hose-5-0-X-2-5mm-p/n203551.htm 5mm German braided hose from ACnet when I first bought my bus almost three years ago. After 16 months on the bus, I found the ends were cracking. This is in southwest Tennessee on a daily driver going 30 miles every day, five days a week, using regular unleaded pump gas. |
I usually agree with AC.net, but not on this hose. I quit using braided hose maybe 20 years ago because it wasn't holding up, I am sure that some are better than others though. The Gate barricade low pressure 30r14 hose, a 30r9 hose, or either's equivalents are the way to go. |
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:46 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Line Fuel hose - Quality, Makers, Sizes FAQ |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
I usually agree with AC.net, but not on this hose. I quit using braided hose maybe 20 years ago because it wasn't holding up, I am sure that some are better than others though. The Gate barricade low pressure 30r14 hose, a 30r9 hose, or either's equivalents are the way to go. |
I'm with you on that - John's free advice here and via email has proven itself accurate and worthwhile the vast majority of the time, and I respect his contributions. But I don't believe their fuel hose is worth the hype in its description... You NEVER hear of fuel hoses going bad on modern vehicles - for multiple reasons - and it's too bad more people aren't willing to do research on appropriate parts.
My frustration with failing rubber hoses is what drove me (no pun intended  ) to make my fuel supply line out of stainless tubing and AN fittings.. The only rubber I have in the fuel system is at the very back of the engine bay and 100% visible for inspection, far away from the heat exchanger dump.
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If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
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