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mykillcykill
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2012
Posts: 50
Location: LOs Angeles
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 Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| After stumbling upon this thread, I went through my file folder and found I bought the CSP kit in 2005. It is and has been great. I choked when I bought it because it cost more than my truck, but it installed great and stops straight. Cannot recommend enough. |
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VWDC62
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2011
Posts: 161
Location: FL
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Appreciate the info. I’m going with the CSP kit.
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Rob
1967 13 Window Bus🚫
1969 Beetle🚫
1962 Double Cab✅ |
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Jimmy Surf
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2017
Posts: 4
Location: Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Hi!
I bought a 1958 bus and I have SACO disc brakes in front and standard rear brakes.
My bus is NOT braking at all.
I have bought the bus last winter like this, I did remove all rust and repainted the bottom totally this winter, everything came of and on again, but my brakes problem stayed the same.
It seems my disc brakes pushing 4 cylinders each and that is too much.
I do not have any power on them.
Is there someone who has suggestions how to fix this?
Thanks!
Jimmy.
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germanx
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2010
Posts: 326
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Hi Jimmy,
before you start changing components, bleed all 4 brakes and check the pads for wear both, back and front.
If those are ok, the issue can be that you might have a single master cylinder or a double cylinder without pressure valve.
Risk is, the disc brake can cope with more system pressure, and this means by pressing the pedal strongly you might damage the cylinders of the rear drum brake.
There are 2 nice movies from a guy mounting the SACO brake on his bus. his other movie speaks about the master cylinder install and the pressure valve in the Master cylinder to limit the pressure which is transferred to the rear drum brake:
Link
But reading your post again, if you took all apart and assembled it again make sure you connected the rear circuit to the outlet with the valve on it. If you did it the other way round, your rear will get all pressure but the front - connected to the valve outlet - would get much less pressure and would not break at all.
Might be worth checking this....
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'73 Beach Buggy
'66 T1 Deluxe |
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zuggbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008
Posts: 3479
Location: Anderson SC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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I have searched and searched.. has anyone put CSP brakes on flipped spindles?
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SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
58 15 window
56 westy |
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62DoKaGuy
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1276
Location: Surprise, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| zuggbug wrote: |
| I have searched and searched.. has anyone put CSP brakes on flipped spindles? |
I did years ago...before I wised up haha. Kidding. Don't remember having any problems, but make sure you get the kit correct for your application as well as the kind of wheels you intend to use, as there were two different split bus kits. One for stock wheels and another for others. Best of luck.
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,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
| EverettB wrote: |
| ...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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zuggbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008
Posts: 3479
Location: Anderson SC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| 62DoKaGuy wrote: |
| zuggbug wrote: |
| I have searched and searched.. has anyone put CSP brakes on flipped spindles? |
I did years ago...before I wised up haha. Kidding. Don't remember having any problems, but make sure you get the kit correct for your application as well as the kind of wheels you intend to use, as there were two different split bus kits. One for stock wheels and another for others. Best of luck. |
Thank you
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SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
58 15 window
56 westy |
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azbob
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2010
Posts: 714
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| 62DoKaGuy wrote: |
| zuggbug wrote: |
| I have searched and searched.. has anyone put CSP brakes on flipped spindles? |
I did years ago...before I wised up haha. Kidding. Don't remember having any problems, but make sure you get the kit correct for your application as well as the kind of wheels you intend to use, as there were two different split bus kits. One for stock wheels and another for others. Best of luck. |
What's the difference between the two - stock vs "other"? Curious because my bus is lowered and may "wise up" some day and dont want to pay double for getting smerter. 
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Bus Builder |
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62DoKaGuy
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1276
Location: Surprise, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| azbob wrote: |
| 62DoKaGuy wrote: |
| zuggbug wrote: |
| I have searched and searched.. has anyone put CSP brakes on flipped spindles? |
I did years ago...before I wised up haha. Kidding. Don't remember having any problems, but make sure you get the kit correct for your application as well as the kind of wheels you intend to use, as there were two different split bus kits. One for stock wheels and another for others. Best of luck. |
What's the difference between the two - stock vs "other"? Curious because my bus is lowered and may "wise up" some day and dont want to pay double for getting smerter. |
"Wise up" was a lowered vs. stock height jab haha. Here is a link: https://www.csp-shop.com/en/brand-shops/csp-products/brakes/brake-systems-front/bus-50-70/pcd-5x205/ for example. One kit is for stock wheels, another for aftermarket, etc. The kit I had was for aftermarket wheels as well as beetle smoothies that fit, but not the 15" slotted bus wheels, as the calipers would not allow the wheel to turn. So, be mindful of the wheels you have or plan to run with the kit and make sure that kit is correct for that application.
Side note: don't care if you're lowered or not, just don't expect a Christmas card haha.
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,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
| EverettB wrote: |
| ...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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azbob
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2010
Posts: 714
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Yep. I knew what you were saying.
And thanks for the response explaining as well.
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Bus Builder |
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SCZ9-1-1
Samba Member
Joined: May 20, 2003
Posts: 716
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:30 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Finished a new front beam for my bus with CSP disc brakes. Straight forward install and work great. I used the stock dual 67’ MC. The extra $$$ was worth it.
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earlywesty
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004
Posts: 2358
Location: In the woods, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| SCZ9-1-1 wrote: |
Finished a new front beam for my bus with CSP disc brakes. Straight forward install and work great. I used the stock dual 67’ MC. The extra $$$ was worth it.
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Very nice. any more pics of wheel and tire combo? Tire size? Did you have any difference in track width? |
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zuggbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008
Posts: 3479
Location: Anderson SC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Thank you all for the advice, I purchased the CSP brake kit and a late bay master cylinder.
I have one side installed and the were fairly simple to install until I got to the dust caps on the back of the caliper. I spent over an hour before I was able to get them on..
My question..I was told to use apoportional valve from a bay window for my rear drum brakes. Has anyone done this or can offer some advice on what I should do?
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SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
58 15 window
56 westy |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| zuggbug wrote: |
Thank you all for the advice, I purchased the CSP brake kit and a late bay master cylinder.
I have one side installed and the were fairly simple to install until I got to the dust caps on the back of the caliper. I spent over an hour before I was able to get them on..
My question..I was told to use apoportional valve from a bay window for my rear drum brakes. Has anyone done this or can offer some advice on what I should do? |
Make sure you take the residual valve out of the master for the front brakes.
As far as the proportioning valve goes, I would say do whatever you're comfortable with. Most people do not run them, and probably don't know the difference. They make universal aftermarket units that work fine, but the baywindow versions are a little nicer because they are inertial so they compensate for brake load.
Install them, do some heavy braking, and come to your own conclusion is the best bet
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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zuggbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008
Posts: 3479
Location: Anderson SC
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:04 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| VWsArent4Hippies wrote: |
| zuggbug wrote: |
Thank you all for the advice, I purchased the CSP brake kit and a late bay master cylinder.
I have one side installed and the were fairly simple to install until I got to the dust caps on the back of the caliper. I spent over an hour before I was able to get them on..
My question..I was told to use apoportional valve from a bay window for my rear drum brakes. Has anyone done this or can offer some advice on what I should do? |
Make sure you take the residual valve out of the master for the front brakes.
As far as the proportioning valve goes, I would say do whatever you're comfortable with. Most people do not run them, and probably don't know the difference. They make universal aftermarket units that work fine, but the baywindow versions are a little nicer because they are inertial so they compensate for brake load.
Install them, do some heavy braking, and come to your own conclusion is the best bet |
thank you kind sir
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SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
58 15 window
56 westy |
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VWsArent4Hippies
Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 3079
Location: The Bull City
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Oh, duh, if you have a late bay m/c it shouldn’t have a risidual valve for the front brakes. You may find you want to switch to a 67 m/c, though, after you put it in
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| aeromech wrote: |
| in my opinion you don't know shit |
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zuggbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008
Posts: 3479
Location: Anderson SC
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| [email protected] wrote: |
seven inch power booster from a hot rod shop along with a late bay master.
not necessary but definitely a luxury.
the 67 master will work fine if you disable the residual pressure check valve to the front circuit or both circuits if you have four wheel disc brakes.
a proportioning valve is not necessary.
It will require more leg pressure to stop with the disc brakes since disc brakes do not have the mechanical advantage of the shoe being pulled into the drum, but the disc brakes stop quicker and do not fade with heat like drum brakes. |
I am soooo confused - if i use a late bay master cylinder with my CSP front disc brakes - (drum rear brakes) - do i need residual pressure check valves?
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58 15 window
56 westy |
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Low Bräu
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2003
Posts: 346
Location: Merritt Island, FL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Zuggbug, nothing to be confused about. Use a late bay master with the CSP kit.
Residual pressure is used only needed on the circuit with drum brakes. The late bay master is already designed for disks up front (no residual press.) and drums in the rear (some residual press.). You should remove the residual valve when using an early bus master with disk brakes. You then have to put an inline residual valve going to the back if you are keeping drums in the rear only. The residual pressure will cause disk brakes to drag once you let off the pedal. Drums rely on spring force that pulls the shoe away from the drum once the hydraulic pressure is removed.
| Quote: |
| I am soooo confused - if i use a late bay master cylinder with my CSP front disc brakes - (drum rear brakes) - do i need residual pressure check valves? |
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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665
Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.
1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap) |
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zuggbug
Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2008
Posts: 3479
Location: Anderson SC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Low Bräu wrote: |
Zuggbug, nothing to be confused about. Use a late bay master with the CSP kit.
Residual pressure is used only needed on the circuit with drum brakes. The late bay master is already designed for disks up front (no residual press.) and drums in the rear (some residual press.). You should remove the residual valve when using an early bus master with disk brakes. You then have to put an inline residual valve going to the back if you are keeping drums in the rear only. The residual pressure will cause disk brakes to drag once you let off the pedal. Drums rely on spring force that pulls the shoe away from the drum once the hydraulic pressure is removed.
| Quote: |
| I am soooo confused - if i use a late bay master cylinder with my CSP front disc brakes - (drum rear brakes) - do i need residual pressure check valves? |
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Thank you. So the late bay master is designed as is to operate disc up front and drums in rear...that is what I needed to know. Thanks again.
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SOUTHERN INTEGRITY AIRCOOLERS
58 15 window
56 westy |
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Low Bräu
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2003
Posts: 346
Location: Merritt Island, FL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Can anyone comment on the new AC industries or EMPI disc brake kits? They both appear to be very similar. I like that the AC Ind. kit has vented rotors, while the EMPI kit appears to have solid rotors. The one thing I noticed is that both kits mention possible fitment issues with stock 15" wheels.
I took this from the Socal Imports website regarding the AC industries kit:
"This will work with original 14″ steel wheels and most 15″ aftermarket aluminum wheels. We have found that this kit will not work with the factory Bus 15″ steel wheels that are known as “Crows foot” wheels made approximately from 1961 to 1963, due to clearance issues between the caliper and inner wheel shape."
I thought the "crows foot" was different in that it had the strengthening ribs at the lug holes and that was it. It sounds like all 15" bus wheels will have fitment issues due to the "vents" in the centers. Can anyone confirm this? I was planning on purchasing a front disc kit in 5x205 for my brother's 1957 bus with stock 15" steel wheels. The bus has a 1968 BJ front beam and IRS. This was the build page https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
After seeing this post http://sv2s.com/community1/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3465&start=20 I am thinking the AC industries kit might work with just a custom 4-6mm spacer on the face of the hub. Or perhaps it needs some grinding on the caliper or slide?
A friend just installed the EMPI kit on an early bay with stock wheels and he said it was a decent kit. But then he has 14" wheels so there shouldn't have been any issue with clearance. Just looking for some "been there done that" experience before we purchase a kit.
thanks
Josh
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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665
Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.
1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap) |
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