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Daniel G
Crazy Amish Guy
Joined: April 23, 2004
Posts: 828
Location: Central Alabama Amish Country
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 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Low Bräu wrote: |
We have found that this kit will not work with the factory Bus 15″ steel wheels that are known as “Crows foot” wheels made approximately from 1961 to 1963, due to clearance issues between the caliper and inner wheel shape.
I thought the "crows foot" was different in that it had the strengthening ribs at the lug holes and that was it. It sounds like all 15" bus wheels will have fitment issues due to the "vents" in the centers. Can anyone confirm this? I was planning on purchasing a front disc kit in 5x205 for my brother's 1957 bus with stock 15" steel wheels.
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That's interesting, because when I did the 944 brake swap on my bus a crow's foot was the only thing that would clear with a tiny bit of grinding on the caliper. I had to grind the hell out of the cooling slots on a regular bus 15" rim so I could use it for a spare. The cooling slots are shaped differently in a crow's foot for sure. I know you are asking about a different kit. Keep in mind my setup also has an adapter back to wide 5, so that also spaced my wheel out some.
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1966 Beetle
1971 Panel
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tpinthepack
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 816
Location: clearwater,florida
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:57 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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I just installed a set of the AC brakes on a 65 Bus that had 15" bus wheels and they hit the caliper far too much for my liking, plus the bus had worn out tires that were not even rated correct for a bus anyway, so I found 5 correct 14" bus wheels that should have been on the bus anyway and they don't hit at all. I really like these brakes, the kit was well designed in my opinion. Fisher Buggies in Tampa got them in 1 day for me at a fair price. I have not had them up to speed yet, but in the parking lot it the brakes feel like a new car.
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TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne |
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Low Bräu
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2003
Posts: 346
Location: Merritt Island, FL
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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tpinthepack, you said they hit the caliper too much for your liking. Could you clarify a little? Could you put the wheel on, tighten it down and rotate it? Usually if the wheel it hitting something its a "no go".
thanks
Josh
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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665
Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.
1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap) |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Daniel G wrote: |
| Low Bräu wrote: |
We have found that this kit will not work with the factory Bus 15″ steel wheels that are known as “Crows foot” wheels made approximately from 1961 to 1963, due to clearance issues between the caliper and inner wheel shape.
I thought the "crows foot" was different in that it had the strengthening ribs at the lug holes and that was it. It sounds like all 15" bus wheels will have fitment issues due to the "vents" in the centers. Can anyone confirm this? I was planning on purchasing a front disc kit in 5x205 for my brother's 1957 bus with stock 15" steel wheels.
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That's interesting, because when I did the 944 brake swap on my bus a crow's foot was the only thing that would clear with a tiny bit of grinding on the caliper. I had to grind the hell out of the cooling slots on a regular bus 15" rim so I could use it for a spare. The cooling slots are shaped differently in a crow's foot for sure. I know you are asking about a different kit. Keep in mind my setup also has an adapter back to wide 5, so that also spaced my wheel out some. |
Sounds like yet another case of a vender not knowing what the hell they Are talking about. They made crows feet wheels before '61.
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Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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mr white
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2005
Posts: 1193
Location: beautiful Oregon & Mohave County, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| I just installed a wagenswest really good disc brake kit on my lowered 60 single. Kit is well made. Only down side was having to slightly trim my stock wheel “spoke” corners to clear the calipers. |
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tpinthepack
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 816
Location: clearwater,florida
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:33 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Low Bräu wrote: |
tpinthepack, you said they hit the caliper too much for your liking. Could you clarify a little? Could you put the wheel on, tighten it down and rotate it? Usually if the wheel it hitting something its a "no go".
thanks
Josh |
The wheel would not turn at all. You would have to grind line 1/2 inch of material from the caliper to let the wheel rotate. I could bolt it on fine but it would only turn like 1 inch in either direction and direct interference. I did not want to grind a new caliper, or any caliper for that matter so the easy fix for me was 14" wheels. The part that hits is the face of the wheel, not the rim, the 15" rim is obviously larger than the 14, but the 4 cut outs in the wheel face are pushed inward and hit the caliper bad.
In my opinion it hits beyond any possible grinding.
Tony
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TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne |
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Low Bräu
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2003
Posts: 346
Location: Merritt Island, FL
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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Thanks for replying. That was my understanding, that the 15" wheel's vent opening will hit the caliper. I too would rather not grind on new parts. Did you look at the link I posted earlier to the SV2s website where the guy spaced the wheel out with washers? Apparently he only needed about 3mm of washer to push the wheel out. At least from what I can tell in the photos. I would consider buying this kit if all you need to do is install a shim/spacer between the hub and wheel. I could easily have them made on a water-jet. A friend has one up the street from my shop. Has anyone here tried this or can you confirm moving the wheel out will work?
thanks
Josh
_________________
Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665
Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.
1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap) |
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tpinthepack
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 816
Location: clearwater,florida
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| Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:49 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Low Bräu wrote: |
Thanks for replying. That was my understanding, that the 15" wheel's vent opening will hit the caliper. I too would rather not grind on new parts. Did you look at the link I posted earlier to the SV2s website where the guy spaced the wheel out with washers? Apparently he only needed about 3mm of washer to push the wheel out. At least from what I can tell in the photos. I would consider buying this kit if all you need to do is install a shim/spacer between the hub and wheel. I could easily have them made on a water-jet. A friend has one up the street from my shop. Has anyone here tried this or can you confirm moving the wheel out will work?
thanks
Josh |
Josh
I did read that and actually that would work fine in my opinion. One thing I wanted to try, and may still do is to find out what caliper AC cloned for this. It looks really like a water cooled caliper like Golf or Passat and I wonder if an OEM caliper would have less casting and not hit. This caliper is rather chunky all around. I am just glad the bus I am doing was supposed to have 14's so this was an excuse to just put the original size wheels back on. If I was to do Disc on my 1960 Single Cab, I am not sure what I would do to retain stock wheels, but a full waterjet spacer sounds appealing.
Tony
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TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne |
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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I'd like to rehash what's currently on the market for disc kits, I'm running a pair of stock 65-66 busses with stock 14" wheels so I might get 2 kits.
SoCal (AC brand):
Vented 1 piece rotors, replacement parts available, $688 shipped $899- they claim the $688 was a "typo". 
Cip1:
Empi: Solid 1 piece rotor, $810 shipped
CSP: Separate hub/rotor, German, $1233 shipped
Saco:
I can't find the '64-7 kit, only the 55-62 kit at Bustoration ($895). Does anyone know where to get the '64-67 kit?
Wagenswest:
$1129 but won't work with stock wheels? Refers to "Babystang" kit but the web page is blank.
What other kits are available that I am missing?
Thanks!
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'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263
Last edited by Bruce Amacker on Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:57 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
What other kits are available that I am missing?
Thanks! |
Airkewld
$1195 for early bus. $1245 for late bus. Neither fit factory wheels.
https://www.airkewld.com/Front-Disc-Brake-Kits-s/2319.htm
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62DoKaGuy
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1276
Location: Surprise, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
I'd like to rehash what's currently on the market for disc kits, I'm running a pair of stock 65-66 busses with stock 14" wheels so I might get 2 kits.
SoCal (AC brand):
Vented 1 piece rotors, replacement parts available, $860 shipped
Cip1:
Empi: Solid 1 piece rotor, $810 shipped
CSP: Separate hub/rotor, German, $1233 shipped
Saco:
I can't find the '64-7 kit, only the 55-62 kit at Bustoration ($895). Does anyone know where to get the '64-67 kit?
Wagenswest:
$1129 but won't work with stock wheels? Refers to "Babystang" kit but the web page is blank.
What other kits are available that I am missing?
Thanks! |
Link to Saco: http://sacoperformance.com/products.php?cat=14&pg=3
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| EverettB wrote: |
| ...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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tpinthepack
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2004
Posts: 816
Location: clearwater,florida
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:18 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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I removed SACO brakes to install AC brakes. The SACO rotor was like a motorcycle Rotor, super thin, and the caliper bracket also thin and the brakes felt horrible. They felt so horrible I never even thought to try to correct it. They were very nice looking though, that is for sure.
AC kit included Master Cylinder, and some really nice front hoses so I feel it is more of a full system, than just rotors and calipers.
TP
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TP in the Pack (I am a cyclist)
1968 Manx N.O.S. w/ Barrett Chassis
1960 Single Cab 1914 w/ 40 DLRA's
1990 Vanagon DOKA
1972 Super Beetle
1979 Super Beetle Convertible
2011 Porsche Cayenne |
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12409
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:24 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
| tpinthepack wrote: |
I removed SACO brakes to install AC brakes. AC kit included Master Cylinder, and some really nice front hoses so I feel it is more of a full system, than just rotors and calipers.
TP |
I assume you're happy with the AC kit? Any issues with the installation? |
Just done one too. Extremely easy to install! The only thing I’d even consider an “issue” is having to re-form the brake lines to fit the dual circuit master. But then again, you’d have to do that with any other system anyway. 
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sled
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6179
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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super frustrating it doesn't fit with stock 15" wheels!!! 
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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so the CSP is the only kit that works without modification on 15"VW wheels?
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| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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62DoKaGuy
Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2011
Posts: 1276
Location: Surprise, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| crofty wrote: |
| so the CSP is the only kit that works without modification on 15"VW wheels? |
The SACO kit worked on stock 15" slotted bus wheels as well. No modification. For the record, it's a stock 3/4"-ton beam, although it shouldn't have an effect. Just want to make it known what setup I have.
CSP and SACO from my experience have both had great braking power, with the SACO's having the aforementioned brake "queefing" from drilled rotor. There was nothing audible on the CSPs I ran for over ten years.
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,,Wenige Menschen denken, und doch wollen alle entscheiden.'' -der Alte Fritz
| EverettB wrote: |
| ...I went at it from both ends but going from the rear didn't seem to do anything, although I did spray some rust breaker in there... |
4/62 Double Cab
5/61 Panel (sold)
4/59 Single Cab (sold) |
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Low Bräu
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2003
Posts: 346
Location: Merritt Island, FL
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| crofty wrote: |
| so the CSP is the only kit that works without modification on 15"VW wheels? |
According to EMPI their kit works with 15" stock wheels; Although, I like to hear a confirmation from someone who has tried it.
Josh
_________________
Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665
Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.
1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap) |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:23 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| 62DoKaGuy wrote: |
| crofty wrote: |
| so the CSP is the only kit that works without modification on 15"VW wheels? |
The SACO kit worked on stock 15" slotted bus wheels as well. No modification. For the record, it's a stock 3/4"-ton beam, although it shouldn't have an effect. Just want to make it known what setup I have.
CSP and SACO from my experience have both had great braking power, with the SACO's having the aforementioned brake "queefing" from drilled rotor. There was nothing audible on the CSPs I ran for over ten years. |
Thanks for the reply guys.
I remember the SACO's having noise issues but maybe that has been remedied.
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| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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srfndoc
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010
Posts: 3275
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Front disc brake conversion |
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| crofty wrote: |
| so the CSP is the only kit that works without modification on 15"VW wheels? |
Old Speed's kit also works with 15" bus rims (that's what I run on my Westy). Russ makes a great kit, definitely worth checking out.
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