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talljordan Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2012 Posts: 954 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 3:46 pm Post subject: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Hey all, total noob question probably. Feel free to direct me to relevant threads if this has been asked before.
I am in the planning and budgeting stages of a 100% restoration of my bug. Currently it is quite rusty and needs a lot of body and paint work (rust holes welded and filled, etc). Currently it has the original paint on the inside, and the exterior has a shitty cheap paintjob on top of the original paint.
I would like to strip the ENTIRE car myself (inside and out, every nook and cranny) down to bare metal and weld it myself or bring it to a body shop to weld in new metal where needed, prime, and paint the thing so I don't have to worry for the next 20+ years. Ideally I would like a very very high quality paint job.
What is the best way to get that amount of paint off quickly and non destructively? Sand with an angle grinder wire brush? How do I stop the car from rusting while its sitting as bare steel waiting for me to strip paint off other panels/waiting to be primed and welded?
What should I expect to pay for a really good paint job once all of the body and metal work is done? Is 10k too low? 15k with body/metalwork perhaps? _________________ 1972 Super Beetle, Parked until adequate restoration funding is acquired in restoration!
Wanted: Male computer diagnostic plug end |
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Bama Dave Samba Member
Joined: April 19, 2015 Posts: 963 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Yes, there is quite a few threads on the topic. Here is one: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=713826&highlight=bare+metal+protect _________________ David Richerson
1970 Beetle
1971 Super
1972 Baja
hellthorne wrote: |
First off, I know i made stupid decisions that led to my predicament, so while you are welcome to tell me that I am an idiot for doing the things I did, please know that I am already aware of this. |
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talljordan Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2012 Posts: 954 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Awesome thank you!
Can anyone else chime in about stripping/pricing? _________________ 1972 Super Beetle, Parked until adequate restoration funding is acquired in restoration!
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chrisflstf Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004 Posts: 3413 Location: San Diego
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Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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For a very very high quality paint job, start at maybe 20K, add metal work, rust repair, for another 10 to 20K.
Sandblasting a naked shell or using a soda blaster service at home is probably 1 to 2K. |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8206 Location: San Dimas
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EmpiGT Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005 Posts: 2597
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Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Beware of sand blasting. I paid a lot to have a couple bodies sand blasted to get back 2 totaled bodies rendered unbuildible.
Sand blasting with too much pressure causes too much heat and pressure warps panels bad. I spent a year trying to fix one body. Shrinking discs couldn't touch the damage they caused.. Never been so pissed in my life to finally take a sledge hammer and beat the shit out of a 23 window bus in my life. They blasted inside and out and it had warps going in and out. Finally sold the body for $1000 and somebody in the UK bought it from who I sold it to.
Do a media blast that doesn't cause heat and warp. Walnut shell or dustless water/media. |
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busmania Samba Member
Joined: October 13, 2006 Posts: 1934 Location: Here
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Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Yep. I just had a bus done by a very experienced blaster. They use plastic to get paint off so the heat is minimal and then use sand on only the rust part. Came out perfect and the best $1500 I’ve spent on the bus so far. Was afraid to take it that far but I’m about to shoot color and couldn’t be happier with my first body work/metal replacement/paint job. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Take a look at the areas that rusted out and look at WHY it failed.
it's not rocker science.
if it ain't broke don't fix it.
if is IS broke don't repeat the same thing and expect a different result. |
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talljordan Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2012 Posts: 954 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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modok wrote: |
Take a look at the areas that rusted out and look at WHY it failed. |
That's the plan. 48 years of paint chips and wear and tear in the wet west coast add up though.
Currently I'm looking at having the car dipped in solution that strips and cures the metal. _________________ 1972 Super Beetle, Parked until adequate restoration funding is acquired in restoration!
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nreslifer Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2007 Posts: 330 Location: York Pa.
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Check into dustless blasting don't know prices but it seems low risk of damaging the body. |
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Evil_Fiz Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011 Posts: 1031 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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[quote="talljordan"]
modok wrote: |
...Currently I'm looking at having the car dipped in solution that strips and cures the metal. |
I looked into dipping the car as well but the $2000 price tag put me off. It is the most effective way to get EVERYTHING off but it carries the risk of leaving inaccessible aresa bare and prone to future rust. I can see dipping being most effective If the "Dipper" will also e-coat or dip the car in phosphoric acid or some sort of rustproofing.
The process I employed in the above mentioned thread followed total paint stripping by chemical means. I used CitriStrip, various putty knives, wire brushes, and coarse scouring pads to remove the paint. The exterior is easy to do but the interior areas will require many hours of scrubbing and scraping with the scouring pads. It is labor intensive but very effective and inexpensive compared to blasting or dipping. PM me if you wnat a more detailed report.
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Emil _________________ “…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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talljordan Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2012 Posts: 954 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Yes, it is rather expensive but I want to do the job right, and only do it once.
The local company that offers it in my area does some sort of post dip treatment that prevents future rust, it sounds similar to galvanizing.
I've also heard of companies that offer dip primes. They dip your shell in primer, and electrically charge it so that the primer gets applied to everything.
I may end up going this route. _________________ 1972 Super Beetle, Parked until adequate restoration funding is acquired in restoration!
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Danpa Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007 Posts: 1240 Location: Valparaiso, in
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Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Before you strip all the paint off, call around local body shops to see if they will paint a car stripped to bare metal.
Someday I will get around to painting mine ( bare metal now), and I called several shops to just get it over with. (Work, new home, etc. - no time)
Nobody wants anything to do with it when I mentioned " bare metal".
Dan _________________ 67 Beetle (gone)
68 Bay Window Double Cab (gone) sob, sob!
64 Beetle (gone)
77 Scirocco (gone)
73 Squareback (scrapped)
70 Beetle (current, in pieces) |
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Danpa Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2007 Posts: 1240 Location: Valparaiso, in
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:30 am Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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BTW, I used Ospho from Jamestown Distributors to coat the entire bare metal body using a cheap brush. I stripped it all off about 4 years ago and it still looks pretty good, just a few little places where very light surface rust has returned.
The car is always in the garage, though.
Dan _________________ 67 Beetle (gone)
68 Bay Window Double Cab (gone) sob, sob!
64 Beetle (gone)
77 Scirocco (gone)
73 Squareback (scrapped)
70 Beetle (current, in pieces) |
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jason Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002 Posts: 3443 Location: Garage
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Sand blasting doesn’t warp metal from heat. If it did the body would be to hot to touch. It does warp it though if not careful. If you know what a planishing hammer is, thats how it warps. Like a million sand size tiny hammer blows against the sheetmetal. |
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Evil_Fiz Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011 Posts: 1031 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Update to my post above.
Today I went to move the door I had done extensive metal shaping on and found surface rust in the areas I had sanded off the phosphate coating while panel beating. The areas that were not molested were as clean as the day I coated then several months ago.
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Emil _________________ “…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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clarkster75 Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2006 Posts: 161 Location: Lots of good clean livin' Utah
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Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:57 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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Look into dustless blasting. It's ground glass and wont damage the metal. There are plenty of You T. videos to watch on it, and you can go the the main manufacturer and watch videos from their site. Way less work than dipping.
They usu. add a chemical agent that will give you several days of bare metal protection.
If you want more, check Pickle-x. Apparently, you can let it sit a long time if you apply that.
Good luck |
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Olli from NJ Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 298 Location: Milton,DE
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:45 am Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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clarkster75 wrote: |
Look into dustless blasting. It's ground glass and wont damage the metal. There are plenty of You T. videos to watch on it, and you can go the the main manufacturer and watch videos from their site. Way less work than dipping.
They usu. add a chemical agent that will give you several days of bare metal protection.
If you want more, check Pickle-x. Apparently, you can let it sit a long time if you apply that.
Good luck |
You are correct that DustLess Blasting is a great option BUT it is not a DIY process. You need to find a business that does it.
https://www.dustlessblasting.com/
Olli |
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Evil_Fiz Samba Member
Joined: May 06, 2011 Posts: 1031 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Best way to strip ALL the paint and prevent rust? |
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I don't know what the internal cavity buildup is like with dustless blasting but it is pretty significant with traditional blasting. I blasted my wheel wells and several parts of the interior, and it took quite a bit to get MOST of the crushed glass out. I ended up having to tilt the car 180* (Vertical to vertical) on the rotisserie and apply compressed air and vacuum to get the media out. Every time I alternated sides more media would drop out. In some areas I ended up using a 3' length of 3/8" tubing with a nozzle on the end to blow out the cavities then vacuumed it out with a 3' length of 1/2" I.D. hose. Tedious and time consuming but worth it.
I imagine the condition is only made worse by the addition of water. Does the water/glass mix create a muddy buildup in tight spaces? If so. it may lead to future moisture retention in spaces where it is not completely removed. This paragraph is more an inquiry than a cautionary tale since I have no first hand knowledge.
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Emil _________________ “…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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edgood1 Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 2048 Location: Plymouth, MA
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