1 - 2 - 4 - 3 Firing Order 009 Distributor

[chucksaysword]

Hi,

I recently went to check the timing on my '72 Ghia with Bosch 009 Distributor due to the poor fuel economy/gas mileage I've been getting. I've only had the car about 2 months, and a tune-up at a local VW shop is the only work I've had done on it. However, before I could even get started, I confused myself quite badly.

Firstly, when I removed the distributor cap, I noticed that the notch in the distributor was at 1 o' clock, when I was expecting it to be at 7 o' clock (or maybe 5 o' clock). No big deal, I thought.

Just for a sanity check, I traced the spark plug wire above where the notch would be on the cap to cylinder #1. OK. Following the rotation of the rotor (clockwise) I traced the next spark plug wire to cylinder #2. Uh-oh. I thought this was supposed to be #4? The next wire went to cylinder #4. The final wire went to cylinder #3. Unless I'm mistaken, this gives me a firing order of 1 - 2 - 4- 3. Everything I've read says my firing order should be 1 - 4 - 3 - 2. What's going on here?

Other than the poor fuel economy (and running a bit hot), the engine starts, idles, and runs fine. Below is what the wiring on the top of the distributor cap looks like, with up being the front of the car.

[Glenn]

The firing order is 1-4-3-2 clockwise.

The only way the engine will run on all 4 cylinders with a different order is if there's a custom made cam and crank.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

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[chucksaysword]

I am aware of the correct firing order, as well as the cylinder naming convention. I believe that the engine is stock internally.

I was quite shocked when I discovered this, as I assumed that the engine would not run at all this way and yet mine runs OK. Is there any other explanation?

[Glenn]

The location of the wires on the distributor ASSume the drive was installed correctly. The best way is to ensure that the engine is at TDC on #1 and the rotor will point to the #1 spark plug wire.

Don't ASSume... know for sure.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

[chucksaysword]

Checking TDC on cylinder #1 was next on my list. I am a VW novice, so this discrepancy threw me off quite a bit.

[berliner]

What exactly did this VW shop do to it?It will run,sort of,with some wires wrong,but it would only produce power on the cylinders that were correct,the others would be pumping gas through unburnt(lousy mileage)and timing issues can make it run hot.Establish for certain where #1TDC is,then put the wires on in the proper sequence.If it now runs a lot better,find out if they had the new kid working on your car.
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[HRVW]

There has been a lot of confusion by many who look at the notch on the dist as being the "BIBLE" to the timing mark...IS NOT THE CASE.

Bears repeating for some Newbees.....

The crank pully will have the keyway at 9 O'Clock and TDC will be at the case seam. Pistons #1 and #3 will be at the top of the their stroke.

The dist drive gear has 12 teeth and can be installed with 12 possible locations for # 1.

Many engine builders will install the drive gear with ROTOR (1 O'Clock) pointing at #1 cyl or the crank bolt (5 O'Clock). (90 degrees)

What happens is depending on the customers dist it could rotate 90 degrees to the left or right. (Vac or Mech).

NO big consequence as the engine will run if static set and proper timing light used.

Bottom line is when TDC is at the top the rotor will be at either #1 or #3.

Firing orderis 1-4-3-2 or (Backwards 1-2-3-4)...EASY to remember.

Fire up the engine and if it pops...reverse #1 and #3...same with #2 and #4 and restart...it should idle.

Steve ( VW mechanic of 28 yrs)

[djkeev]

[chucksaysword]

Thanks for the good info. When I looked again at the distributor cap wiring, this is what I saw:

I'm convinced that this is the right diagram.

Does this mean my firing order has been shifted (90 degrees)? Was the engine timed using TDC for cylinder #2? Can I simply rotate my distributor so that the notch appears below the #1 spark plug wire on the cap? Or will I need to re-time the engine?

[djkeev]

[Teeroy]

with the 009 number 1 goes where you have it on your diagram, if you have a stock distributor, #1 will be where #2 is on your diagram. This is if the drive is in correctly.
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[berliner]

It's a 009,so you should be able to rotate it to put the notch where #1 wire is now,then shift all the wires ninety degrees,so #1 is still where it is now(cap only goes on one way),firing order 1432,as it is now,and that should put the retarded #3 where it belongs.You'll need to static time it once it's sorted out,then put a light on it sometime to get it just right.Looks like someone put all the wires on wrong,but in the right sequence,then just twisted the whole works to make it work.I believe,by the location of #1,that the dist.drive is put in correctly.
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I'm part of the problem.

[berliner]

Did a search and found out older 009s had the retard on #3,later ones didn't.It would be interesting to see which 009 you have in there.Your car is a '72,so it has the doghouse cooler,therefor is better without the retard,cause #3 doesn't run hot.
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[slowbyrne]

Chuck--I have a buggy in Baja. I have the same firing order. (1-2-4-3)

It does have electronic ignition so I am assuming this thing has been modified. It was pointed out that a custom cam or crank could account for this.
I'm not sure if it has one. Seems to run fine and will not run if I change the firing order to the standard one.

[Glenn]

[slowbyrne]

I misspoke. Upon checking a little more carefully I notice the plug wire I thought was routed to #1 actually was going to #2.
So the firing order is standard. Sorry.

[mrkrause]

I know this is an older posting but this is where I'm at.

This"notch" that is talked about is barely a file mark on my distributor rim, but it is at 1:00. My 3 wire was at the notch on the cap then clockwise 1, 2, 4.

I do have voltage at the points with the key on. I pulled a spark plug and held it to the frame while holding the stater button and did get a blue spark.

After checking in Muir's book, it appears that my wires should be backed up 1 place on the distributor cap.

There seems to be conflicting opinions about where #1 wire should on the distributor cap.


While cranking the motor I noticed a squirting gas spray on the right side and toward the front of the carburetor. I'll pull the carb apart tomorrow and check that out....I'm thinking a gasket.

I haven't got this 1600 dual port motor to start yet. I'm not sure which front to tackle first.

I'd love some feedback.

[fes]

That notch is irrelevant, Distributors and carb combinations are rarely a stock match..and who's to say the drive gear was put in at a perfect 9o degree angle during the build..
Pop the valve covers off.
Rotate the pulley until the big notch lines up with the split in the case.
Rock the pulley back and forth watch the rocker assembly on #1..They should NOT be moving,#2 will be,if the #1 IS moving,you're at TDC on #3
Now that you're at TDC #1,look at where the rotor in the distributor is pointing
Run the #1 wire to this position on the cap and then #4,#3 and #2 clockwise on the cap from there..
Start car and enjoy (after you put the valve covers back on)
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[mrkrause]

fes,
Thanks for responding!
Your instructions are easy and straight forward.

As soon as I finish cleaning the carb and have it reinstalled, I'll do exactly what you suggested.

I'll let you know how it goes.....

Ken