| Author |
Message |
piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
|
 Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:09 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
Cool!
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
vdubjim
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2004
Posts: 684
Location: okc
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Anyone tried this?
i emailed them no answer.
i appreciate many of the shops making MS parts, but come on….. An aluminum pulley with a gear on the back, $200? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vdubjim wrote: |
Anyone tried this?
i emailed them no answer.
i appreciate many of the shops making MS parts, but come on….. An aluminum pulley with a gear on the back, $200? |
That's a custom distributor based wheel and cap replacement with hall pickup, and was ~$125. With the right wheel (12-1, not 12-2) you can do full sequential using that single wheel on MS2E/MS3
He can make that too by request, he's an MS1 guy so that's set up for MS1, looks like a 6-1 crank wheel to the MS1.(opposing missing teeth)
He may have sold out of them.
I rolled my own using a 36 tooth wheel for an RC gas truck (steel spur gear) and a touch of weld to fill the gap between teeth, sensor didn't like one ground out much.
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vdubjim
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2004
Posts: 684
Location: okc
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Saw your traxxis mod. Pretty neat.
I think his was 12-1 on his YouTube vid |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was just thinking you could probably file a tiny bit of steel to fill in decent between the teeth on that Traxxas gear, JBWeld it in and finish file it to shape.
The hall sensor probably wouldn't care, and no welding.
A little nub to mount it on the 009s shaft would still be required, but that should cost $5 and could even be plastic (or molded "steel putty"  ) and made with a drill/file.
The $12 gear would be the "expensive" part. The sensor is <$5.
I might have to spin something up this weekend to see just how simple I can make one.
I'll see if I can score a 60 tooth. I have more sensors...
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vintagespeedwerks
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 129
Location: OKC, OK
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sound like money maker to me. Well as long as you answer emails lol.
_________________
New Rims avail, lots of syles |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dduvall
Samba Member
Joined: June 30, 2010
Posts: 1
Location: Castle Rock Colorado
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Any chance your still making these? looking for a 12-1 to use on my type3 to replace my distributor and go to sequential with LS2.
Thanks,
Daniel Du Vall |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
68squared
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2009
Posts: 23
Location: Victorville High Desert IE
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Check the guts of saab and volvo distys for a trigger wheel and sensor if you're on a budget or don't want a wheel on the crank |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jarred
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2006
Posts: 21
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm still here, sorry about the non-response. Have had a bunch of stuff going on. Am currently prototyping a circuit to fit in that hall sensor cap to trigger the VW coil pack directly but using the mechanical advance of the 009 instead of a megasquirt or some other cpu. So simplicity of mechanical advance (for those not dyno-ing and deriving advance curves), less wiring, and without the cap/rotor/points replace 'n adjust trouble. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lingwendil
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3988
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jarred
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2006
Posts: 21
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
| EDIS still requires the SAW signal to perform timing advance. Without the SAW signal from a FI controller, EDIS will run in limp mode with advance stuck on 10 degrees BTDC. While EDIS is a rock solid platform and I have used it myself in another megasquirted car, there isn't much effort saved in wiring up an EDIS system over running a sensor directly to the FI controller and have the controller fire the ignitors. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark33563
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2005
Posts: 1667
Location: Tampa Bay. FL
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
Digging up an old thread.
Stumbled across this earlier today and thought it relevant to this discussion:
http://thedubshop.goodsie.com//crank-trigger-package-vw-type-3
even with the sensor located between the gen and fan it looks to be a PITA to install a new belt. nonetheless, nice execution.
_________________
-—--------—-------
"That's an ultra-rare Dung Beetle... in reverse, it rolls up giant balls of crap. " - Dave24 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Intrinsic
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011
Posts: 262
Location: Clearwater, FL
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
Thanks, I did not know that anyone made a mount for the IGN-4 coils. Its way nicer that my current installation.
Its good to see high quality Type III specific MegaSquirt installation kits. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
Belated update--- a 72 tooth 32 pitch rc truck fits in a 009... just.
The sensor would have to go on the OD of the can, as the wheel clears the ID by ~1mm or less, so you would need to make a hall module for it and have the gear sensor go into a hole to get the ~1mm gap.
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mick
Mick-n-chips
Joined: April 12, 2003
Posts: 415
Location: RADelaide
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
Do you mean a gear wheel?
The 'triangular' profile of a gear wheel is not optimal for triggering as there will be some variation in the sensor trigger distance based on temperature etc.
The net effect would mean that as the trigger distance changed the the timing would change.
This is why trigger wheels have a square profile.
_________________
https://joeblow.me
Joe Blow Superchargers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
Theoretically yes, but its not enough to cause visible timing variation even at idle with ms2e or ms3.
(Using an ATS667 gear sensor vs a gear with filled in missing tooth, filing one out causes issues, likely with the onboard AGC circuit)
Also, the runout is insignificant and the machined gear teeth are very regular.
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mick
Mick-n-chips
Joined: April 12, 2003
Posts: 415
Location: RADelaide
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
The ATS667 sensors are generally used for speed / direction detection not position. Even the spec sheet for the ATS667 specifies a square toothed target as being optimal.
Relative repeatability is quoted as 0.06 degrees at 1000rpm which would most likely equate to 0.36 degrees at 6000rpm (for an optimal target)
You will also see a variation in signal as the sensing distance changes. I think that you would easily see 0.5 degree overall variation and possibly more. And that's not even taking into account runout and propagation variance.
Probably fine for a road car but would be less than optimal for a performance application.
Why design a system that starts off with such a high deviation? Much better to start off with an optimal target. It's not like you are really saving money versus using a proper trigger. I don't see the logic in providing a modern EFI or Ignition system a junk input signal. junk in = junk out.
That's my 02c
_________________
https://joeblow.me
Joe Blow Superchargers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 2:06 am Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
Apparently .36 degrees potential variation averaged out through the ecus electronics and firmware still isnt measurable variation using a timing light at 12,000 wheel rpm, but ymmv.
If your application somehow requires nuclear spec gear, do what you gotta do.
Note tbat crank flex from flywheel to pulley end at high power levels is probably ~same range of error.
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mick
Mick-n-chips
Joined: April 12, 2003
Posts: 415
Location: RADelaide
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
| piledriver wrote: |
| Note tbat crank flex from flywheel to pulley end at high power levels is probably ~same range of error. |
...exactly my point.
Your design philosophy seems to ignore all of these errors as being insignificant
However what you are missing is that all of these insignificant errors will add up to be a significant error.
I thought I was being helpful by bringing your attention to the variation you will see due to the less than optimal trigger profile - just in case you were not aware of it. However if you are already aware of it but have elected to ignore it, that's fine.
Not really interested in arguing who is right or wrong. Your definition of an acceptable error is clearly different to mine.
I see this as an easy to remedy error which can easily be removed from the tolerance stack-up, making the end result more accurate and reliable.
It is clear that your design philosophy differs greatly to mine. Let's leave it at that.
_________________
https://joeblow.me
Joe Blow Superchargers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
piledriver
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003
Posts: 184
Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2023 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Trigger Wheels |
|
|
Indeed, i tried it and it works very well, with no measurable error at any RPM, and it has provided bulletproof service for many years.
You discard it out of hand because you read about it, its theoretically not perfect so must be rubbish.
Do what you gotta do.
I simply tried it to see how well it worked.
_________________
Current daily driver---73 Square, 1.8L T4, MS3+MS3X/sequential w/LS2 coils 80 miles/day. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
