Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Cranking problem
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
westina
Samba Member


Joined: October 01, 2017
Posts: 363
Location: Beacon/NY
westina is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:54 pm    Post subject: Cranking problem Reply with quote

Hi. 84 full camper 1.9 stock wbx manual here. For a while I would turn the ignition , starter would click but it wouldnít start. This would happen letís say once week. So I figured the starter is dying which looked old and tired anyway. Bought a remanufactured starter from eBay itís Bosch. I know the eBay thing may not be the smart move but bought 3-4 starter from different vendors never had problem. Anyway now it doesnít start very often. Itís my daily vehicle and makes things very hard. Imagine you pump some gas and almost get a tow back home. I have on samba before that rocking the van back n forth sometimes works and it worked for me today. Since the problem snowballed after the starter replacement should I ignore the ignition switch possibility? I ai will look into how to jumper the starter too. Would a brand new bosh unit fix this situation? Thanks

Last edited by westina on Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 14044
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

Look at he battery voltage in the morning, and watch it while you crank. Its highly likely you have switch, wiring, and starter issues all together.

(Its highly likely......)

An eBay starter is a complete unknown, so bringing more unknowns into a problem isn't really too good an idea. You are much better off having your OG starter rebuilt by a local electrical shop with a good reputation from the vintage car people in your area - find them and ask. The people who know this stuff aren't on fora or Facebook yet.

Bosch reman used to be good, now they are crap. The rebuild factory is in the Developing world, and the QC is bad - lots of them fail out of box.

While the edit window is still open, change your title to CRANKING PROBLEM

Cranking problem - no whir whir whir on key turn

Starting problem - engine cranks over but won't fire up.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
djkeev Premium Member
Samba Moderator


Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 25075
Location: North West New Jersey
djkeev is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting problem Reply with quote

The rocking back and forth with vehicle in gear can dislodge a starter drive stuck in the flywheel.
On VW's this can be caused by a worn starter nose bushing in the transmission housing.

When you say it won't start....... what happens?
Clicks
Grunts
Chatters
Absolute silence

Knowing what is happening helps identify problems.

Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
westina
Samba Member


Joined: October 01, 2017
Posts: 363
Location: Beacon/NY
westina is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Cranking iproblem Reply with quote

Yes it clicks and nothing else. Not turning or anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 12930
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Cranking iproblem Reply with quote

Did you change in the included starter bushing? The ignition switch is easily bypassed, but not going to document it for the lazy meth heads in the PNW on the internet. It should be documented here somewhere. This is a common question/problem. Iíve not had problems with Bosch remans from reliable vendors so far.
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI.
1990 Vanagon Camper Syncro.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Chestercopperpot
Samba Member


Joined: March 26, 2017
Posts: 31
Location: Colorado
Chestercopperpot is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

Is this random or when warm or cold only? Grounds...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
westina
Samba Member


Joined: October 01, 2017
Posts: 363
Location: Beacon/NY
westina is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Cranking iproblem Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Did you change in the included starter bushing? The ignition switch is easily bypassed, but not going to document it for the lazy meth heads in the PNW on the internet. It should be documented here somewhere. This is a common question/problem. Iíve not had problems with Bosch remans from reliable vendors so far.

My intention was to replace the bushing since new unit came with the bushing but the old bushing was reall stuck in that groove. I though ohh well its just a bushing and installed the new unit. wire brushed the terminals, smeared dab of dialectric grease...
The ignition switch stuff is on youtube. I can replace it no problem. But since i put a new starter and the problem skyrocketed, i wonder if it has anything to do with the ignition.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
westina
Samba Member


Joined: October 01, 2017
Posts: 363
Location: Beacon/NY
westina is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

Chestercopperpot wrote:
Is this random or when warm or cold only? Grounds...

I am still observing but it looks like a random event. I have been dealing with that since morning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
E1
Samba Member


Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 4994
Location: Westfalia, Earth
E1 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

May be worth a look at the cable attaching to the starter. If cracked, your issue can be the result.

If it worsens to not even clicking, Boom, the likely culprit.
_________________
1984 Westy-Ferrari firing at 33% capacity
I drive by the seat of my pants but then get behind on my steering
Thank You Bob Lazier, Forever Golden
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
westina
Samba Member


Joined: October 01, 2017
Posts: 363
Location: Beacon/NY
westina is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

Now i am thinking, that little bushing that i skipped to replace may be the source. I have checked to see what would be a decent approach to remove the old one. They slightly hammer a tap to get a grip and pull it out. I think that's where i should start. Tomorrow...i'll report back. Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
the joker
Samba Member


Joined: October 12, 2006
Posts: 1160

the joker is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:06 am    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

you may want to consider the gowesty redesigned unit Idea

BTDT with the bosch junk, now turn the key, and go.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MarkWard
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 12930
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
MarkWard is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:14 am    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

My suggestion was to bypass the ignition switch temporarily and see if the problem persists before you go to the trouble to replace it.

I have an old tap I have used for 40 years to remove the bushing. I think itís 1/2Ē. You run the tap in to the bushing and it walks the bushing out nice and neat. I use a long 10 mm bolt with a nut to drive the new bushing in.

My preference is always to try and determine a cause vs throwing parts at it. Ignition switch is cheap and they do go bad. Why not be sure before you pull the column apart? Good luck.
_________________
1982 Vanagon Camper with ALH TDI.
1990 Vanagon Camper Syncro.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
outcaststudios
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2015
Posts: 998
Location: pile of copper and broken glass
outcaststudios is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

classic bad ground scenario. btdt. get under and clean the trans ground strap, remove it ,get bare metal re attach and cover with dielectric grease
_________________
'88Doka
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 12948
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

I like to add a new ground strap from the lower starter bolt to the chassis.

as for starters.
I've bought 2 of these Brand new mfg units from rock auto and they've been swell. $90new

Power select listed as 86-91 but that's cause it has the longer stud on the solenoid, it'll fit/work fine on a 76-91 manual bus/van
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/power+select,17066N,starter+motor,4152
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 43391

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

FWIW, if you buy a 2.1L starter it will likely be cheaper then the 1.9L starter while producing an extra 0.25HP.

Direct bolt in.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 12948
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

sometimes I've had to clean/scrape the paint off a reman starter to allow enough of the grounding current to get into the transaxle.

fwiw I use a biting lock washer on the lower starter bolt also. Wink

do EVERYTHING you can to get a good current path into and out of the starter to the battery.
once satisfied you can top coat the connections with some dielectric grease or clear spray paint.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
westina
Samba Member


Joined: October 01, 2017
Posts: 363
Location: Beacon/NY
westina is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Cranking problem Reply with quote

Thanks guys, sorry i wasn't able to respond. The van cranked fine all day yesterday and so far today. I am sure it would hick up again but at this point i am in wait and see mode, reason being is that i am the middle of non vanagon related projects(sailboat) so i ll get by until no crank happens again. Appreciate the help. When it happens again, i ll put everything aside and go over everything described in above posts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB