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miscreantgnomie Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2005 Posts: 637 Location: Near lackland AFB come and visit
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:38 am Post subject: Outy versus innie engine vents |
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What was the logic of switching from outtie versus innie engine vents ?
Was it cosmetic and did not want the lines of vehicle sticking out or was it for a reason such as to better air flow or negative pressure. _________________ 62 sc, 62 SO 34, 61 mango, (2) 67 deluxe in crappy shape, 73 thing, 64 ghia,
and some embarassing bays. shhh, I just use them for storage. (hides)
San Antonio (SAAC/VOSA) |
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malachai Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2004 Posts: 645 Location: Großbritannien
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:49 am Post subject: |
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It was so that the new sliding door option would work without dents or swearing.
It probably also made a deluxe very slightly cheaper to manufacture as I don't think there is any trim on inny vents, I doubt that was the reason though. _________________ http://www.facebook.com/groups/175509642524184/ |
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WallysRiviera Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2008 Posts: 122
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:18 am Post subject: |
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Innie vents more streamlined....less wind resistance. |
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57palm Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007 Posts: 139 Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:38 am Post subject: for greater safety |
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I recall reading the vents were changed to innie as well as the bullet signals turned to flat for safety reasons. Imagine a slow speed collision with a pedestrian and they hit the bullet signal...ouch or get cut but the vents........ouch again.
RM |
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zozo Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2005 Posts: 5217 Location: South of Ol' San Antonio
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: Re: for greater safety |
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57palm wrote: |
I recall reading the vents were changed to innie as well as the bullet signals turned to flat for safety reasons. Imagine a slow speed collision with a pedestrian and they hit the bullet signal...ouch or get cut but the vents........ouch again.
RM |
I'm imagining a slow-mo movie clip of both of those happening to the same person, only a second apart. |
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jeffff Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2006 Posts: 1044 Location: Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: Re: for greater safety |
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zozo wrote: |
57palm wrote: |
I recall reading the vents were changed to innie as well as the bullet signals turned to flat for safety reasons. Imagine a slow speed collision with a pedestrian and they hit the bullet signal...ouch or get cut but the vents........ouch again.
RM |
I'm imagining a slow-mo movie clip of both of those happening to the same person, only a second apart. |
If a Ninja drove a bus, thats what he would do |
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Anchovy Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2000 Posts: 2922 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:44 am Post subject: Re: for greater safety |
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57palm wrote: |
I recall reading the vents were changed to innie as well as the bullet signals turned to flat for safety reasons....
RM |
Yes, these were safety upgrades...along with the switch from ice-pick style door handles to push button. |
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House Minutia Militia
Joined: June 13, 2001 Posts: 1770
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: |
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And high hinge to low hinge cargo doors. |
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Mr Mike Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2004 Posts: 766 Location: washington state
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Anchovy, House, and 57 Palm are pretty much right on with the safety issue answer. I was in the Navy returning from a tour of duty in Japan in late 1963 and recall reading an article in the auto section of the Pacific edition of Stars and Stripes (the military newspaper)
Ralph Nader and his people known as "Naders Raiders" had been after
the Corvair by Chevy as well as Volkswagen for some time. They claimed the rear engine Corvair and the bug would "tuck under" rear
axle wise and roll thus should not be sold. They also did some "tests" with a number of cars, Cadillac and Oldsmobile were two I remember, that supposedly did bad things to folks in a low speed, car / pedestrian
collision. Eventualy Corvairs went out of production.
VW wasn't specificaly called out on the car/ pedestrian thing, although Nader tried to claim the vent trim could puncture the skin of a person hit by a bus or catch their clothes and possibly drag them. VW got the message and changed what they could. A number of ads came out showing bugs with cars and other heavy weights on them that didn't crush the car. The article I read in Stars and Stripes had to do with an independent survey that showed the "VW Bug" was much more manueverable in traffic and thus safer in avoiding head on collisions. Sounded good to me! I bought a new one in '66 while stationed in San Diego and 43 years later still own it. |
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malachai Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2004 Posts: 645 Location: Großbritannien
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:49 am Post subject: |
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it was so that the sliding door would work, sliding doors became available a couple of weeks after inny vents, bullets were still around for another 5 months until they made the rear hatch bigger for the 64 year model.
high hinges ended a couple of years before all of this and ice picks ended a few months before inny vents were started
I can't imagine pedestrians were ever really hurt by outty vents _________________ http://www.facebook.com/groups/175509642524184/ |
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3097 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:08 am Post subject: |
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Low hinges were adopted immediately after semaphores were discontinued (on Euro buses).
No co-incidence there. _________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
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malachai wrote: |
it was so that the sliding door would work, sliding doors became available a couple of weeks after inny vents, bullets were still around for another 5 months until they made the rear hatch bigger for the 64 year model.
high hinges ended a couple of years before all of this and ice picks ended a few months before inny vents were started
I can't imagine pedestrians were ever really hurt by outty vents |
I thought for Export, the bullets were changed in 61 and "fried eggs" started Aug 61. Not sure about Euro type II. Ive seen 62s with bullets. Isnt the millionth bus a bullet 62?
Also innie vents started in July 63?? _________________ Grapes of Wrath $200 Engine Rebuild
Official Dual Carb Thread
Cylinder Head Quick Reference Sheet |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14271 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I had read and heard that changes like those were body contact safety issues which always struck me as strange (pun intended). In the US, for example, spinner hubcaps were considered outlaw: much like a Ben Hur effect. You could get them on a '63 Falcon or the later Mustang for a premium price, of course. Allstate insurance wouldn't allow you to drive with them in California. |
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57palm Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007 Posts: 139 Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Please make the "sliding door" idea go away. If you look at any sliding door it easily clears the 1/2 inch the vents would stick out. The only area that might come close is the sliding rear mount bracket under the belt line.
RM |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69827 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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malachai wrote: |
bullets were still around for another 5 months until they made the rear hatch bigger for the 64 year model. |
US Buses didn't have bullets beginning with the 1962 model year. My understanding is the European Buses had bullets at least through 1962.
malachai wrote: |
ice picks ended a few months before inny vents were started |
Innie vents began March 6, 1963
Push button front handles began Dec., 18, 1963 _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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malachai Samba Member
Joined: August 02, 2004 Posts: 645 Location: Großbritannien
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:23 am Post subject: |
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57palm wrote: |
Please make the "sliding door" idea go away. If you look at any sliding door it easily clears the 1/2 inch the vents would stick out. The only area that might come close is the sliding rear mount bracket under the belt line.
RM |
Are you sure, I'm sure I read in another thread that it was the reason, and the dates they both started were very close, but I've never actually checked.
EverettB wrote: |
malachai wrote: |
bullets were still around for another 5 months until they made the rear hatch bigger for the 64 year model. |
US Buses didn't have bullets beginning with the 1962 model year. My understanding is the European Buses had bullets at least through 1962.
malachai wrote: |
ice picks ended a few months before inny vents were started |
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yeah I meant euro busses, I forgot that you guys got them at different times _________________ http://www.facebook.com/groups/175509642524184/ |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69827 Location: Phoenix Metro
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14271 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:36 am Post subject: |
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I was under the impression the sliding door itself was considered safer as it didn't require the operator to be as far from the vehicle and could operate in close quarters of curbs and traffic. |
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Thomas Pedigo Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2010 Posts: 1052 Location: Nine Mile Falls/Sunset Bay,WA
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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EverettB wrote: |
malachai wrote: |
bullets were still around for another 5 months until they made the rear hatch bigger for the 64 year model. |
US Buses didn't have bullets beginning with the 1962 model year. My understanding is the European Buses had bullets at least through 1962.
malachai wrote: |
ice picks ended a few months before inny vents were started |
Innie vents began March 6, 1963
Push button front handles began Dec., 18, 1963 |
I got "outy" vents on my Dec. 9th '63 Scab and I must have the last couple weeks of ice-pics as well. "Mr. Armstrong" noticed the vents a couple days ago and thought it was odd... _________________ Defying conventional wisdom since 1970 |
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///Mink Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2000 Posts: 5051 Location: Fair Oaks, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thomas Pedigo wrote: |
I got "outy" vents on my Dec. 9th '63 Scab and I must have the last couple weeks of ice-pics as well. "Mr. Armstrong" noticed the vents a couple days ago and thought it was odd... |
Trucks had outie vents all the way through '65, unlike Buses. |
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