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Bostig conversion
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gl98115
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

loogy wrote:
Why in the wide, wide world of sports do so many grown men insist on wearing panties around here? I'll never understand!


Especially since they always seem to be in a bunch.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:52 am    Post subject: hey Reply with quote

this is not a debate i Just didn't Understand why not take the More reliable root that all this was new to the world of the Vanagon and just had questions?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love my 1.9 WBX in my 84.

I hate the leaky, problematic 2.1 in my moms 87.

I'm keeping my WBX because of the low rpm torque, it is original, and it has just barely 100,000 miles.

I advised my mom get on the build list for a Bostig and I'll put it in over the winter. While I'd love to put in a Subaru (cause of looks mostly), I've looked at different suby kits, they are cost prohibitive and the learning curve will take to much time for me.

Just my 2 cents (or my $7000)
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigh. Our '85 just died yesterday. #1 has no compression.

Looks like a Bostig in the future.
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fsf1o1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry about that mate.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's nothing to see here folks, move along. #Sleep
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wiartonallan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, Bostig owner. 265,000km. Two trips from Ontario to Florida, one from Ontario to Nova Scotia. Issues? Pretty well boils down to one shredded surpientine belt.

Before I did the conversion, for some reason I didn't feel good about taking my tired WBX too far from home. After working through some initial issues I would take it pretty well anywhere. Someone brought up the engineering issue. A valid concern but I think that this is where Jim Akiba sets this conversion on a new level. Although it is evolving the Bostig conversion has always had great engineering support.

Now here comes the other side. Once I had what I thought was a reliable engine in my daily driver 85 Westfalia I got to feel pretty comfortable with rebuilding WBX'rs ranging from a 1.9 with new crank, pots and rebuilt heads to a couple of reseals and rebuilt head jobs. Not that hard, just a little more lifter noise than you might like.

My bottom line is that if you need hand holding like I do/did then the Bostig idea is great. You can be confident that you will have a "bulletproof"power plant and a REALLY good support team.

I also agree that the character of the engines are very different but to me the clinch comment came from my then 15 year old daughter who asked why Volkswagen didn't put an engine like that in the van in the first place. Her comments had nothing to do with anything other than her seat of the pants feelings about driveability. I have a friend with a GW 2.? and more HP. Sounds good, drives good but it required serious intervention from GW (including new pistons) to get it right.

If you could pick up a WBX from VW with some sort of assurance that technical backup was available then that might be a good first choice. If you know how to put a WBX together still a good choice but you are on your own. If the idea of a supply of cheap replacement engines and great support sounds good get a Bostig.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiartonallan wrote:
First, Bostig owner. 265,000km. Two trips from Ontario to Florida, one from Ontario to Nova Scotia. Issues? Pretty well boils down to one shredded surpientine belt.

Before I did the conversion, for some reason I didn't feel good about taking my tired WBX too far from home. After working through some initial issues I would take it pretty well anywhere. Someone brought up the engineering issue. A valid concern but I think that this is where Jim Akiba sets this conversion on a new level. Although it is evolving the Bostig conversion has always had great engineering support.

Now here comes the other side. Once I had what I thought was a reliable engine in my daily driver 85 Westfalia I got to feel pretty comfortable with rebuilding WBX'rs ranging from a 1.9 with new crank, pots and rebuilt heads to a couple of reseals and rebuilt head jobs. Not that hard, just a little more lifter noise than you might like.

My bottom line is that if you need hand holding like I do/did then the Bostig idea is great. You can be confident that you will have a "bulletproof"power plant and a REALLY good support team.

I also agree that the character of the engines are very different but to me the clinch comment came from my then 15 year old daughter who asked why Volkswagen didn't put an engine like that in the van in the first place. Her comments had nothing to do with anything other than her seat of the pants feelings about driveability. I have a friend with a GW 2.? and more HP. Sounds good, drives good but it required serious intervention from GW (including new pistons) to get it right.

If you could pick up a WBX from VW with some sort of assurance that technical backup was available then that might be a good first choice. If you know how to put a WBX together still a good choice but you are on your own. If the idea of a supply of cheap replacement engines and great support sounds good get a Bostig.


Thats was well put man I believe i feel the same way and that support can help new comers to the vanagon world because honestly teaching someone how to engine swap with phone support can go along way
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know Daizee Idea
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I would like to meet Daizee. Too bad that she had so many issues but I wonder how things would have worked out without the conversion attempt(s).

Daizee, in my view, is a (not so quiet) person deeply committed to a VW based upgrade.
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ftp2leta
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig conversion Reply with quote

Quote:
1. The Wasserboxer is serviceable by any VW repair shop. This is important to Vanagon owners who aren't mechanics themselves.


Mmmm, that I don't agree at all. There is less and less shop wiling to work on those old but venerable engine.

Quote:
2. The Wasserboxer passes emissions inspections. Some states are strict enough that a conversion cannot gain approval.


Not a problem in my neck of the wood, which state are you talking about? (CA, i know...) just curious. an 2010 Subi engine with an Emico CAT will produce more then twice less emission/carbon monoxide than a stock engine.

Quote:
3. The Wasserboxer is smooth running, has nice mid-range torque, and sounds great.


Mmm. sure, drive a Subi and it has more torque everywhere, way more torque than a VW boxer at any range. As for smooth running, you must have THE perfect VW water boxer. But in some ways I agree, i have built super smooth running one but at what cost.

Quote:
4. Not all Vanagon owners are huge fans of Ford engines.


Same goes for any other engine maker. I kind of like the inline 4 ford engine and i think that Bostig did something amazing. Often, those people are call purist... but that is fine, we need close minded folks in this world Smile

Quote:
5. Wasserboxer engined Vanagons are easier to resell and often sell for the same money as a van that has received a very expensive conversion.


I agree, for now.

Quote:
6. A properly put together Wasserboxer can last for 200K plus miles, so there is no durability drawback to keeping it.


some may do, but at what cost???

Quote:
I could go on, but you get the idea. It's fine that you think the WBX is outdated and worthless, but a lot of us on here like the engine. It does a decent job of powering the lighter vans, gets good mileage (with a stick shift), and it adds a lot of character to the van.


You are also right, it WAS a fine engine for the time. But everything around it is getting old, very old. An injector as a life. That is just 1 part!

You know me, i have work on over 60 stock engine before I started doing engine conversion (50+), I have seen and driven both.

I won't ever go back to a stock engine, ever.

For the sake of a good discussion.

Regards, Ben
ps.: keep those engine thread coming, I'm sick and tired of tire, fridge, suspension... thread.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at the speedo as we were coming to a rolling stop after all forward movement ceased on the original engine on our 1984 1.9 Vanagon Westy...

190,001.

Not bad...

We (the wife and I) are deciding what to do. We need to store it well, save some $, then go Bostig.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig conversion Reply with quote

ftp2leta wrote:
Quote:
1. The Wasserboxer is serviceable by any VW repair shop. This is important to Vanagon owners who aren't mechanics themselves.


Mmmm, that I don't agree at all. There is less and less shop wiling to work on those old but venerable engine.


Quote:
2. The Wasserboxer passes emissions inspections. Some states are strict enough that a conversion cannot gain approval.


Not a problem in my neck of the wood, which state are you talking about? (CA, i know...) just curious. an 2010 Subi engine with an Emico CAT will produce more then twice less emission/carbon monoxide than a stock engine.

Quote:
3. The Wasserboxer is smooth running, has nice mid-range torque, and sounds great.


Mmm. sure, drive a Subi and it has more torque everywhere, way more torque than a VW boxer at any range. As for smooth running, you must have THE perfect VW water boxer. But in some ways I agree, i have built super smooth running one but at what cost.

Quote:
4. Not all Vanagon owners are huge fans of Ford engines.


Same goes for any other engine maker. I kind of like the inline 4 ford engine and i think that Bostig did something amazing. Often, those people are call purist... but that is fine, we need close minded folks in this world Smile

Quote:
5. Wasserboxer engined Vanagons are easier to resell and often sell for the same money as a van that has received a very expensive conversion.


I agree, for now.

Quote:
6. A properly put together Wasserboxer can last for 200K plus miles, so there is no durability drawback to keeping it.


some may do, but at what cost???

Quote:
I could go on, but you get the idea. It's fine that you think the WBX is outdated and worthless, but a lot of us on here like the engine. It does a decent job of powering the lighter vans, gets good mileage (with a stick shift), and it adds a lot of character to the van.


You are also right, it WAS a fine engine for the time. But everything around it is getting old, very old. An injector as a life. That is just 1 part!

You know me, i have work on over 60 stock engine before I started doing engine conversion (50+), I have seen and driven both.

I won't ever go back to a stock engine, ever.

For the sake of a good discussion.

Regards, Ben
ps.: keep those engine thread coming, I'm sick and tired of tire, fridge, suspension... thread.


Hey Ben,

Yeah, I don't mind kicking this subject around for the sake of discussion. I think you know I am committed to the Subaru 2.5 conversion since I am putting so much work into the Subaru transmission conversion.

I certainly don't disagree with you about the age of the WBX components being a drawback. You can easily sink $1000 extra in a new AFM, thermostat housing, coolant distribution block, distributor, injectors, idle stabilizer, ECU, etc. That has to be factored in when weighing the convert or keep it stock dilemma.

As far as VW shops that won't touch a WBX, I keep hearing these referred to in conversion propaganda, but all of our local Seattle area VW repair shops will gladly work on a WBX Vanagon. I can't imagine why a VW shop would turn one down. The Bentley manual has all the service procedures well documented, and they can charge actual shop hours to do the work. On the flipside, the only shop I know of in the area that will work on a Subaru converted Vanagon is Smallcar.

Yes, I was thinking of California regarding strict emissions inspections. But I was under the impression that more states are moving towards these types of visual inspections. If they do, then what happens for all the converted vans that are dependent on simple tailpipe tests for approval. I know in Washington we adopted these visual inspections for a couple years back in the early 90s, and the inspectors were looking suspiciously at the modified ignition wiring under the hood of my 84 Scirocco.

You won't get any arguements from me that the Subaru 2.5 has superior torque and hp everywhere compared to a WBX. I wasn't actually comparing the wbx to anything else - just saying that it provides impressive torque and nice flexibility for an engine of its size. I have always been impressed by the smoothness and quiteness of the wbx out on the open road. In fact, my biggest gripe about the Subaru 2.5 is that it is quite a bit louder than a WBX, and I actually don't like the sound it makes as much as the WBX. I am using a KEP airbox on the current one I am working on, hoping to quieten the intake noise. Maybe you can tell me ahead of time if I am wasting my time on this Smile

On a similar note, I haven't really found any WBXers that run particularly smoother than others. Most of the time the cranks can be left standard and the pistons and rods usually come well balanced. From my point of view well-built wbxers can be characterized by engines that develop decent oil pressure and hold together. Poorly built ones either have low oil pressure, or they blow up - usually both if run for long enough. Right now, I'm driving a 91 Carat with 194K on it, and it has the original bottom end.

I'm probably kind of unusual when it comes to Vanagons because I like the vans served up a lot of different ways. I like Wasserboxers, I like Subaru conversions, I like the 1.8T conversion that Stephan's Autohaus has been perfecting, and I enjoyed the drive I got to take in Daryl Christianson's Bostig Turbo Syncro.

My main point in my original post is that the WBX meets the requirements of quite a few Vanagon owners. In some ways, I think it's possible to get a skewed view of how problematic the engine is because there are a lot of DIYers on here venturing for the first time into rebuilding them, doing head gaskets, and other major work. This makes it sound like they are constant trouble, when in truth they are not. I have gotten many years of basically trouble free miles out of my 88 WLE and I have no desires to convert this particular van over to Subaru or Zetec power.

I am also tired of the lack of stimulating mechanical posts on our forum lately. I wish more people were doing exciting projects at the moment.

Take care, Ben. I hope you have had a chance to relax a little bit this summer.

David
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fsf1o1
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:17 pm    Post subject: hey Reply with quote

all this stuff is sooo interesting Play on play on
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This brings up a good point.

When my mothers van was broke down between IA and MO. No one would touch it. Not the aircooled people or the water cooled. Looks like the northwest is different.

They are afraid of the WBX. Regardless of whether it is stock or a conversion, I think most places in the midwest or southeast won't work on vanagons. They are a specialist vehicle.

That's another reason I'm recommending the Bostig to my mom. From what I understand, she can plug her laptop somewhere into the harness and send Bostig the data. They can then tell her what sensor is off or what is the probable cause of the issue. Then she can make a decision of what to do.

So that's another point. How much do you know about your van and its different systems? How much do you want to know?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience with one rebuilt WBX into a Vanagon, and now a rebuilt AC into a Westy I would suggest to anyone considering buying one of these things to buy one with a blown motor for cheap(er) and do a Suby or Bostig conversion. After dealing with VW mechanics around the region over the last few years, I would much rather do the work myself so the Bostig would be a more realistic option for me because of the preparation and support from Bostig. The Bostig kit is pricey though. Yes, I know why. Does no one else have a comparable kit and support for a Suby conversion?

Entertaining thread. Was this a drunk post?.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig conversion Reply with quote

D Clymer wrote:
I like Wasserboxers, I like Subaru conversions, I like the 1.8T conversion that Stephan's Autohaus has been perfecting, and I enjoyed the drive I got to take in Daryl Christianson's Bostig Turbo Syncro.


David


I fully agree with what you say. I'm no Subaru freak, this is what I do for a living. If Hans from Vanaru didn't get me into that crasy ride I would probably still do stock engine or Bostig conversion, who knows?

I'm humble enough to see good engine work when I see some. Bostig is one of those. Don't think for a second that I wouldn't like to try something else, any of you!!! Come on, I'm on my 54 conversions in 3.5 years. It's getting... well not boring but you get my point.

At least we are going the Turbo route soon so that will be an all new challenge. We are going this way because customers are asking for it, me, i don't believe that our van should have more then 200hp at most.

But I don't believe a shop like mine can do more than one kind of engine conversion (make), we are STILL perfecting the 2.5L....

An engine conversion will always be "a conversion".

All I know is that my customers are really happy, and hey, I'm one of them.

As for a complete and perfect Subaru conversion kit, no, they is none.

I honestly think that we now have the best late 2.5L conversion and we are not selling any kit. If I would tell you the retail price (even the cost) of our part you would all fell down on your butt.

North American (Canada or US) stainless steel and labor are not cheap.
ALL our conversion part are now made here by us, no Chinese crap material and unqualified labor.

Let's just say that our kit would be at least 1500$ more than a Bostig one.

Cheers, Ben
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, for what it's worth...There is no doubt that if you drop in a suby, a 1.8t, a TDI, a Bostig, that you will have something newer with more power.

But, let's consider some other aspects of owning a van...I want to travel see the sights, camp, meet new people etc... A swap at best is going to set you back a minimum of 3+K and in some cases much, much, more, and this is all at once. Not to mention only a couple of these give you truly better gas mileage (in real world driving) based on all the mileage reports I have read here. So you will more than likely be spending more in gas after the fact.

In the mean time I can keep updating my boxer while I drive it and go places, which is what I have done. Last year 3 trips each greater than 3000 miles and one all the way to the Arctic (12-15k). A total of around 18-21,000 miles!! Just last year.
I can keep the engine running AND travel for the same money. If you consider 2 people splitting gas/food then even 1000$ goes a long way and leaves a lot for unseen repairs in the mean time too.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with a swap, but man, sometimes I think if I read many of these posts (not this one in particular) someone would think it is an absolute must to throw wads of money into a new powerplant right after you purchased your "new" van.

This is just not the case. I know many people out there cruising stockers all over the country, one good friend puts big miles on an air cooled bus and has for years with no issues. Does he do maintenence, sure.

So far I beleive I will continue to take the chance on my stocker and keep on travelling, and by the way, within 5 miles of me, due to all the swappers, I know there are at least a dozen wbxers that were running just fine prior to pull out that I could now buy for next to nothing and replace mine if I needed. Which by the way is exactly what I did 4 years ago after I used up my 1.9. The 2.1 I am currently running cost me 750$


With that little gem I have travelled the country to the tune of 50,000 miles in vacations, and put on a ton more miles using it as my daily driver when my other cars gave up. I have not only one issue that has stopped me in all that time (related to the engine; hall sender failure).

Not only can it be done but it is and continues to be done daily in a stocker.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bro I feel the love for the WBx well put mate
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiartonallan wrote:
First, Bostig owner. 265,000km.


You have 265,000km on a Bostig Conversion?
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