Rust fighting coating experiments

[stormforge]

I'm doing some experiments with hard waxes -- the sort of coatings that I hope will be suitable for rust prevention on the exterior of vehicles. The theory behind these products is that their waxy/oily/flexible properties allow them to soak into already rusty areas and form a long-lasting shield that keeps air and water out -- thus preventing further rust. Unlike paints, epoxies and other "hard" coatings, these products are designed to stick more tightly to the rusty surface than they do to themselves. They do not form a "crust" which water can wick behind and which can hide further rusting.

There are many varieties of "soft" oil/wax designed for application in sheltered areas (for example, inside body panels, etc...). Some of these are LPS-3, Fluid Film, and Waxoyl 120-4. These products are designed to be very low viscosity to allow them to creep and penetrate into tiny seams and cracks. Many of these products never dry and are excellent for inside doors & panels but are not suitable for undercarriages or other exposed areas where they wash off fairly quickly.

I'm interested instead in "hard waxes" which might do a good job protecting wheel wells, frames, fenders, etc... from salty winter roads. These products need to have the good oil/wax properties of the soft waxes but also need to be tough enough to last a winter or two.

I picked 5 hard wax products to try out. As a sort of control/comparison I'm also going to try some Dupli-Color "Rust Fix". This is a clear-coat spray paint combined with phosphoric acid that is supposed to convert the rust and provide a hard coating in one step.

Here are the basics on the 6 products:

I bought 3 of them in spray cans and 3 in bulk. Most of them come in spray cans as well as in quart or gallon cans. I applied the bulk products using a small bristle brush but they can all be sprayed using undercoating guns.

I cleaned a steel plate and threw it out in the yard for a week to give it a light coating of rust. I applied the products directly over the light rust with the plate in a vertical orientation. I put on heavy coats and let the excess drip off.

Here's what the products look like applied.

The Procyon is fairly thick and this gives the dried coating a good thickness compared to the other products. After 2 days of drying it is also quite hard and waxy. So hard that I might worry that it could be a little too brittle.

The Waxoyl Hardwax is nasty, tar-like stuff. It also goes on fairly thick but it dries to a more flexible, tacky, rubbery coating.

I think the 3M rust fighter is really designed more for protected areas but it seems like a good product. It obviously has some lanolin in it (it smells like wool). It goes on fairly thin but leaves a nice, tackly, waxy coating.

The Eastwood Heavy Duty Anti Rust is very similar to the Procyon but somewhat thinner. It produced a thinner hard, waxy coating.

The CorrosionX HD may be a complete bust. Their literature suggested that it was suitable for exterior use, but it's really more of a thick grease. I don't think it will last long...

The Dupli-Color Rust Fix goes on like spray paint but with a strong phosphoric acid smell. The rusty areas turn black and it leaves a hard, clear coating. I actually put a second coat on about an hour later because the rust was bleeding through in a couple of places. After two days this swatch was considerably darker than shown in the picture.

Now I'm going to bolt this plate to the bottom of the winter car (Subaru) and leave it there all winter. If I had to make my choice today I would guess that the Waxoyl Hard Wax or the LPS Procyon will be the winner.

Cheers,
-Bill
'89 Syncro

[insyncro]

The Eastwood product is excellent as a coating.
The Wurth products available are even better.

Wax is the key!!!

[IdahoDoug]

Stormforge,

The presence of forums like Samba are an amazing resource that has an incalculable benefit to people like me who are feeling our way into a Vanagon project for the first time. Amazing.

But it's people like you and threads like this that are truly remarkable for the contribution they make and the obvious dedication to the forum concept as a way to disseminate knowledge for the good of others. It's the "good of others" that impresses. Thanks for what you are doing here.

On putting the plates under the Sub, it may mess things up because there will be huge differences under your vehicle as to which areas get heavily doused and which get hit indirectly. You might consider a more statistically accurate way of measuring the differences in protection such as simply making a salt water solution and putting each in the tank at the same time. Just sitting there the salt is going to attack quite effectively.

A few gravel strikes on one plate that the others don't suffer will give the salt more places to attack that the others will not have, for instance - starting a bloom of rust the others wouldn't have.

Thanks again,

DougM
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[fsf1o1]

What a prime example so awesome to know

[stormforge]

Thanks Doug -- yeah, I was trying to think of a nice setup that would mimic winter driving conditions but I couldn't figure out how to replicate -40F temps, 70 MPH winds, months of ice, sand & salt, etc... I live in pretty worst-case rust conditions up in the mountains with long winters and with salt on the roads 5-6 months of the year.

I plan to put the plate just underneath the front bumper of the Subaru - well away from the spray of my own tires. I figure in that spot it will get a mostly uniform level of abuse -- although I expect the samples closer to the sides of the car may get a bit more spray, etc... from cars ahead of me. If the bumper is any guide, every sample will get multiple rock strikes and plenty of abuse.

Cheers,
-Bill

[morymob]

My 2 at the time, rust preventers(loose term)is metal prep and Rustoleum for rusty metals. My test a few yrs back on Rustoleum was a piece if rusty sheet metal, not yet crusty, gave 3 good spray coats from rattle can on 1/2 and left other alone , left outside thru winter and except the color getting a bit lighter it looked as when i put it out. Never tried with metal prep but think i will do pretty soon with a sanded rusty panel and compare the two.

[JPrato]

Nice test. But I don't think there is one product that will do everything.

Where the corrosionX excels is weeping into seams stopping corrosion and displacing water. The stuff I have used is more like an oil. If something is heavily rusted it might not work but if I see rust starting around moldings or in the bottom of the doors on my vehicles I will apply it. The Westy gets stored winters but the daily drivers see the brutal salt laden winters of upstate NY and it seems to help.

For the Westy I pull back the window rubber on the inside top edge and squirt some in. It flows around the seal and covers the pinch weld. Even California cars can get some rust in there and the CorrosionX applied helps. I recently had to replace my windshield. There was little puddles of CorrosionX in the lower corners where I had repainted a few years ago because of slight rust. It was doing a great job protecting that area.
_________________
Joe

87 Syncro Tin Top project
84 Westy, 2.5L Subaru power
06 Subaru 2.5 turbo in waiting
46 Cessna 140

[tschroeder0]

Nice work.

I can tell you that prior to leaving to AK last year I used some of TerryK's Panel Wax stuff that is like a waxoyl product. I used a bunch on the areas under the wheel wells and had enough to do the drivers side rear seams on the interior ( I ran out for the other side and had no time left). My van had a fresh paint job prior to leaving and I had done the bedliner treatment before paint.

The drivers side seams are still perfect. The passengers side shows the start of that "whispy" very light rust on the rear seams.

The wax that I sprayed under the wells is all still intact. I drove through an incredible amount of crap in AK and had to wash the van a lot, so there has been no shortage of abuse.

I am now a firm believer that the combo of bedliner on the exterior and wax on all the seam areas in the interior would eliminate the seam rust problem.

[abranz]

I've been working on rust prevention for several years since Idaho began using sodium & magnesium chloride in place of gravel during winter. Well now they use either solid or liquid sodium chloride. My plow trucks began showing significant corrosion and costing a great deal of money (brake lines/frozen calipers/failed friction pads/sheet metal corrosion, ball joints, universal joints, suspension parts, etc. Paintable products and black undercoating have not helped. They either peeled or trapped moisture beneath them. Found a product called fluid film which is lanolin. I spray every plow and vehicle used during winter which has by all intents stopped further corrosion. It does wash off within the wheel wells but does a fantastic job at a reasonable price. Just wanted to pass this on. I passionatlely fought the state against going to salt but money as always is the bottom line. Anthony

[50 Kafer]

I have used CorrosionX and it is good stuff and I recommend it.
_________________
John
1950 Kafer Deluxe (10/50)
1955 Beetle Deluxe (6/55)
1968 Beetle (11/67)
1982 Westy
1986 Cabriolet (6/86)
WTB Air-Camping roof top mount http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1499947

[mwolf5682]

Woo Hoo

From the rough sledding state of Minnesota, I am waiting your results. I have sprayed Corrosion X all over the place, used POR15, rust bullet, 3M panel spray, blah blah blah.

I think the key is seasonal application, at least a couple times good before the salt and ice. I have been at it for years, and it seems like the waxy oily strategy is the best, but it just needs to be done frequently.

Fighting corrosion sucks. I look at the EJ33 adventure and it makes me want to cry seeing what it is like to keep an auto in Nevada. Really it just means having to be vigilant and keeping things greasy on the tundra.

Keep up the good work.

[Terry Kay]

I'll share this one with you guys & gals.
My 74 Westy has waxoyl ( or whatever the dealer applied when it was new) and it is soft--not hard or brittle, and it's still all over the bottom of the Bus--and still all very much all there---and no rust at all.

I'm impressed, ad this is why I imported several 55 gallon drums of the underbody wax product which I have aresoled & sell.

Now--on the other hand, 15 years ago I sprayed the whole bottom of my 87 with Bedliner.
It's kinda urethane semi hard, semi soft, but all still rust free & in tact.


The trick is to get the bottom of the vehicle squeaky clean prior to applying anything for max adhesion.

The first 85 Vanagon GL I had, the seams were just turning baby shit brown--not totally rusty brown --yet.
I masked off & blew amber wax on the seams only, removed the tape, & it stayed rust free from that point on--it got no better or worse.
Starving the rust from oxygen is the trick here, and the wax in my professional refinishing opinion is the fastest & most pain free way to get this done, with the least amount of Time & effort, & the least amount of $$ spent.
_________________
T.K.

[dobryan]

Bill/stormforge,

How are the products holding up so far? I need to apply something in the next 30 days (before this winter) and I can't wait for the end of your test so I'm hoping to get an interim update.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[SL1]

X2 on the wax stuff

when I was under my 85, checking things out, I was amazed at the condition of the chasis, and all the metal fitting, lines etc - they are just like new. I will be getting some this fall to re-apply on the wheel wells, thats the only place that needs more, and only on a few places. there is 270K kms on my machine. That being said, it has never seen the winter roads and all the killer salt that they love to apply in Canada. Pretty sure the body shops have a controlling interest in the salt mines
_________________
Steve
1985 GL Westy - 'Bullwinkle'
1978 Super Beetle - 'Rocky'

[dobryan]

I exchanged pm's with Bill and after his advice went with the Waxoyl Hardwax

http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-5727-waxoyl-hardwax-underbody-500ml-aerosol.aspx

I bought four cans, one for each wheel well area. I did the passenger front yesterday evening and am very pleased with it. My plan is to use this in the wheel wells and then soak the rest of the undercarriage with the Waxoyl type panel wax (TK sells it). I'm also likely to add the panel wax on top of the hardwax in the wheel wells so it can seep into any areas that the hardwax did not get too. This way I think I will have a durable layer of protection in the wheel wells and a full wax coating everywhere as well.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[stormforge]

OK! Time for the somewhat surprising results. The test plate spent 6+ months bolted to the engine skid plate on my wife's Subaru. We live in pretty-much a worst-case winter area in the Adirondack mountains. Snow, slush, salt, and sand for 4-5 months of the year. This year the snow was actually pretty light, but I think the rusting conditions were still excellent. Here is the BACK of the test plate (untreated):

Here are the left and right halves of the treated plate.

Procyon, WaxOyl, and 3M rust fighter:

Eastwood, CorrosionX, and Dupli-Color:

Here are my comments/thoughts on each product:

LPS Procyon: I had high hopes for this product. Went on like a pretty hard & durable wax but really didn't make the grade. Complete failure.

Waxoyl Hardwax: Looks excellent. Couple of little rust spots are where the product bubbled on application. Should have used two medium coats instead of one. This is what I'm going to go with from now on for all exposed metal.

3M Rust Fighter: Interesting result. This is actually a softer lanolin wax intended primarily for inside panels/doors, etc... Nevertheless, it held up very well - the rust you see is mostly what was on the panel when it was applied. This goes on much more runny than the Waxoyl and should penetrate into cracks better -- so maybe this is the top pick for inside doors and rocker panels.

Eastwood "Heavy Duty Anti Rust": This was another product that looked pretty tough when first applied but it failed completely.

CorrosionX HS: This is more of a grease than a wax -- probably not a good choice for moving vehicles. I thought it would all wash off but most of it is still there and it's actually doing a pretty decent job of stopping the rust. Still very soft and greasy - never hardened up.

Dupli-Color Rust Fix: I put two coats of this on to give it a chance but it failed and has the worst rust of the test.

So, short answer: Use 2 coats of Waxoyl outside, use 3M Rust Fighter in doors and panels.

Cheers,
-Bill
'89 Syncro

[randywebb]

thx for posting this - care to change the positions of the top 2 products and re-run next winter, adding Tectyl & a Wurth product?
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.

[joseph928]

Waxoyl Hardwax: Looks excellent. Couple of little rust spots are where the product bubbled on application. Should have used two medium coats instead of one. This is what I'm going to go with from now on for all exposed metal.

3M Rust Fighter: Interesting result. This is actually a softer lanolin wax intended primarily for inside panels/doors, etc... Nevertheless, it held up very well - the rust you see is mostly what was on the panel when it was applied. This goes on much more runny than the Waxoyl and should penetrate into cracks better -- so maybe this is the top pick for inside doors and rocker panels.
Thanks for all the work, and the top two. Now I can go out and get some, and save money not buying the rest!
_________________
1987 syncro westy tin top sun roof , GW2.3, rear locker, decoupler, Gary Lee tire rack & winch mount, lift, south african grill, big brakes , rhein alloy ,15 BFG AT, Fiamma 10 foot awning ,140 watt rear 85 watt front solar , mppt, truckfridge, automatic fire extinguishing system, tencent oil cooler, And a RMW SS exhaust! - 1971 bug convertible 1776 engine- 2010 Subaru turbo - 1993 Toyota 4x4 truck - 1999 Harley 95 CI, big bore, Andrews cams . Also 80-84- vans. Stock 65 sunroof bug.

[danfromsyr]

try and add FLUID FILM to the test..
we had a repaired steel fuel tank on a ranger used all winter for 2 years. and only coated with Fluid film, still rust free

certainly use it in the inside body cavities.

we'd be happy to share some with you.
_________________

[denwood]

Great test Storm! I have been researching various products (long term test winners) here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=606491

I loved the fact that you bolted your test "coupon" onto a car and posted real world tests. This is as good it gets for a single test IMHO.
_________________
Cheers,
Dennis Wood
The Grape