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HeftySmurf
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2008
Posts: 879
Location: Washington, USA
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 Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| dobryan wrote: |
| Gauge needle is at the top of the LED at normal temps (184-190). I have a scan gauge mounted on the top of the instrument cover to monitor exact temps. Don't like the ambiguity of the stock gauge. |
Same temp range here
If you have a a Subaru conversion a Scan Guage or Maxi trip is a must
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90 GL w/ Bostig |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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My 93 EJ22 in the 1990 Multivan with T Shiels version 5 modified as shown in:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=445880
runs in the middle of the LED to the top of the LED. At the top the fan kicks in. The fan kicks in while waiting at In-and-Out for example but cycles off right away when we start to move.
If I cruise at around 70+ the temp drops to the bottom of the LED. As soon as I let up on the gas, say to get off the freeway, it starts to climb.
I other words if hovers around the LED.
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2049
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Once the needle on my stock gauge goes over the top of the LED, the scan gauge reads about 205F and thats right around where my radiator fan kicks in, almost religiously. This only happens in traffic or idling. I've never had it hit that while cruising in high gear.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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Volksaholic
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Here you go... I took some pics on the drive home. I guess I should collect some when I'm really heating it up and when it's warming for comparison. One problem is that the VW gauge will respond to changes in temperature very slowly. I think it was still rising when I snapped the 188° pic.
Please excuse the dust... the maid took the year off! 
pd
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1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251 |
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2049
Location: Plymouth, MA
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Volksaholic
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2005
Posts: 1771
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| edgood1 wrote: |
when mine reads 188F on the scangauge, the needle is higher on the LED than yours....much closer to the top.
there must be some variance in either of the senders. |
Like I said, I think the needle was still climbing slowly when I took that pic, and then I got over the I-15 Point Of The Mountain summit and the temps started dropping. 190° is right around the top of the LED. I wasn't putting much attention into taking the pics or watching for the needle to settle in because I was on a busy freeway with a cross wind! I'll try to get some more pics and put together a more complete collage. I've read that there's a bit of variance even from van to van with the stock sender... I don't know if that's from the gauge or the sender.
I wish my low temps were closer to 190°F. My low fan kicks on at 205° or so.
pd
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1988 Wolfsburg Edition, 2001 Subaru EJ251 |
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levi
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005
Posts: 5522
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| edgood1 wrote: |
interesting...
when mine reads 188F on the scangauge, the needle is higher on the LED than yours....much closer to the top.
there must be some variance in either of the senders. |
There is quite a bit of variance in the readout of the gauges themselves.
I have 4 complete clusters, and they all register at different points on the gauge when hooked up to the same van. So, this whole "where does your temp gauge read" is really kinda pointless.
These gauges should be used as relative meters only, knowing where your gauge lives at a known high engine temp (with an IR gun), and then acting on that level on your gauge. Only at that point do these gauges have any really useful input.
btw, I put tom shiels adapter at the bottom of my stat, and the increased input from engine flow to the stat has translated into very stable readings on my gauge. Once it warms up it just doesn't move at all.
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edgood1
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004
Posts: 2049
Location: Plymouth, MA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| levi wrote: |
There is quite a bit of variance in the readout of the gauges themselves.
I have 4 complete clusters, and they all register at different points on the gauge when hooked up to the same van. So, this whole "where does your temp gauge read" is really kinda pointless.
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I kinda figured as much. I almost never rely on the dash gauge. Only when the scangauge isn't present. I trust the scangauge so much more.
I've also noticed that my gauge is not consistent with the scangauge (or viece versa). Sometimes, usually after inital warmup that certain temps on the scangauge are read at different places on the gauge than the previous run.
For example. Today 188F was near the top of the LED, but on Sunday it was right in the middle. I don't think there could be much of a difference in temps due to each senders location.
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1987 Syncro Westfalia powered by Subaru
1963 Panel to Deluxe Bus project :::: (photo album)
'65 Westfalia |
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Franklinstower
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2006
Posts: 1896
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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i drove the other day with the laptop and B10 software running. The B10 was showing 184 to 192 when on the freeway, then off the freeway stopped at lights and just idling I rose to 198 then the fan cam on and it dropped right back down. My needle is just slightly above the led. my question is, how accurate is the B10 compared to an actual water temp gauge?
I am not worried about my temps, just curious.
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'89 Westy - EJ25/22 Frank 4.44 5mt
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GrindGarage
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2008
Posts: 710
Location: Ocean City, NJ
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Here is what I have with my EJ22:
Fan Kicks IN (only idling for a prolonged time):
Normal Operation:
Doing 70mph it stay at a steady 188. Sitting at traffic light it will jump to 192 and just stay there till it turns greeen. The second I start moving it will drop to 182 and then creep up and hold steady at 192.
Anyone know if it is okay for these motors to run at idle with no load @ 200 deg? When I am at idle I am seeing .7 volts at both O2 sensors this seems kind of rich considering when I am goosing it the O2 shows .8 they are OG to the engine so may be time to pony up for a new one pre cat.
[/img]
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91 Vanagon AUTO
97 Single Port EJ22 all smallcar.com |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Dear GrindGarage,
Your post begs a new thread or two also. I state this BEFORE this thread goes too off topic. May I suggest you:
1. Leave your temperature question.
2. Post a new thread about Suby O2 sensors.
3. Tell about your phone scanner (I think others will like it too) in a new thread.
Thanks a post with pictures always seems to be better.
-Walt
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)
Last edited by r39o on Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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presslab
Samba Member
Joined: September 29, 2008
Posts: 1730
Location: Sonoma County
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| GrindGarage wrote: |
When I am at idle I am seeing .7 volts at both O2 sensors this seems kind of rich considering when I am goosing it the O2 shows .8 they are OG to the engine so may be time to pony up for a new one pre cat.
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What program is that on your phone?
I assume you have a newer engine with WbO2, because of your two sensors. These are different than the narrow band ones used on older engines. They operate by measuring current, and not voltage, so I'm not sure how to correlate your 0.7V to a lambda.
http://wbo2.com/lsu/lsuworks.htm
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GBA 88West LA
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1279
Location: New Hampshire
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:59 am Post subject: |
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mine runs much like everyone else.... below the LED , never moves from there even when cooling fan comes on ....please more info on on htc sprint phone app scanner 
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88 Westy GL Vanaru 07 2.5 EJ25/AA Trans/oiling plates, 1.14 3rd-.77-4th..solar powered cabin |
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joetiger 
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5078
Location: denver
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Gotta have that app...Gotta have that app...
ETA: mine is usually pegged at 80 degrees C, unless I spend some time in summer traffic or climbing, it might get up close to 90.
('91 EJ22)
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'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
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'04 Golf R32
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
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Brianfromutah
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 150
Location: Utah, Heber City
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:39 am Post subject: |
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I just wanted to chime in here. I had a very similar thread going but it got locked (understandably as it was pretty much the same as this one) I just wanted to follow up with what i found with mine. My temp gauge normally reads very high: (2009 subaru 2.5)
I warmed it up to about this same temp this morning and checked the actual coolant temp with my multi meter. I checked it in the pressurized coolant tank, which gets coolant directly from the manifold. So maybe the actual engine coolant temp is slightly higher, but not much.
I got 190 degrees, which from what i understand is perfect.
So, as mentioned before, these gauges are horribly inconsistent at least when comparing them to each other. True temp must be measured by a different source.
I will sleep better knowing that my high needle is perfectly normal.
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FrankenSubySyncro
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2007
Posts: 638
Location: Vancouver, WA.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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If you are using the subaru sender (for the dash, not the ECU) without the resister it will read high. I am using the single prong dash sender from an 85 vanagon and it sits at the bottom of the LED with 183-188 on the scan gauge (SG uses the stock subaru ecu sender). Is anyone using the stock 86+ vanagon sender for the dash?
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2004 2.5 SOHC Subaru
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Brianfromutah
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 150
Location: Utah, Heber City
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| Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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I am using the stock VW sender for the gauge. I bought a brand new one at autozone. My van is an 89, but it had the one prong sender on it.
Maybe the engine was replaced at some point with an older one?
That might explain the high reading on my gauge, and why autozone was trying to sell me a different sender. I had to tell them an older year before the right one came up on their computer.
Interesting.
On a separate note, I've always wondered if the newer subaru engines tend to run hotter or colder than the stock VW ones.
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Jake de Villiers
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Joined: October 24, 2007
Posts: 5911
Location: Tsawwassen, BC
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| Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Brianfromutah wrote: |
I am using the stock VW sender for the gauge. I bought a brand new one at autozone. My van is an 89, but it had the one prong sender on it.
Maybe the engine was replaced at some point with an older one?
That might explain the high reading on my gauge, and why autozone was trying to sell me a different sender. I had to tell them an older year before the right one came up on their computer.
Interesting.
On a separate note, I've always wondered if the newer subaru engines tend to run hotter or colder than the stock VW ones. |
The engine, whether VW or Subaru, runs as hot as the thermostat allows. The WBX has an 87* C. (189* F.) thermostat and the Subaru has a 190* F. thermostat.
You need to track down the issue with your gauge/sender and repair it - there's not enough sweep left in the dial to give you good information if you should begin running hot...your eye will be less likely to catch it, too.
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hobart15
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Joined: July 02, 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Salinas
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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brian of utah,
I just finished my conversion and have the exact same temp readings as you using a 94 ej22 in my 89 westy. i'm planning on installing a resistor (28ohm??) to get the gauge to read a little lower, are you planning on doing the same thing? |
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Brianfromutah
Samba Member
Joined: May 30, 2012
Posts: 150
Location: Utah, Heber City
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that is what it will need i think. I was trying to find some resistors today but i don't think they sell any nearby where i live. 28 ohm sounds right i think. Are you using the Subaru sensor or the original van sensor? I am using the van sensor but i think it was the wrong sensor from the beginning. It's the 1 wire style, and from what i understand it is for the older vans and has a different range. Unfortunately I don't know if it was reading high before the conversion because the van had a blown motor when i got it...
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'89 Westy Syncro w/ '09 Subaru 2.5 |
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