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Merian
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the bottom-end of the higher-end Alpine head units - i.e. the cheapest single-bit decoder unit. I forget the long model #.

I also use the highest quality iTunes format (Apple Lossless IIRC). In A-B tests, I cannot tell the difference between that recording of a female vocal selection from CD and the CD on my high quality home system.

You can easily digitize 600 CDs in the winter. I did a lot more than that. Load one while browsing Samba, read part of thread, then swap CDs; finish reading the thread; swap CDs; ....
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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimivee wrote:
MsTaboo wrote:
I recently bought a sub $200 unit, (actually about $100 from Sony) and the thing had lousy sound

What is/was the rest of your system comprised of? I'm not a huge fan of Sony decks either.


Yeah, Sony has really gone down hill. I bought that one because I had good luck with them in the past.

I use Diamond component speakers and Rockford-Fosgate amps.
The van that has the Sony does not have an amp, just front component
speakers. I'm gonna pull that piece of junk and use it as a filler in a for sale car.
I've had pretty good luck with Alpine also, like the Kenwood layout better.

I want to make clear I didn't intend to start a flame war about mp3 vs CD, it's just that I prefer CDs and wanted to explain why I was looking for a deck without the inputs.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never occurred to me the stereo had anything to do w/ the poor sound quality, thought it was the speakers.

I *hate* my Sony Stereo b/c of the way the buttons work. The "off* button is this tiny little thing hidden in the corner, which wouldn't be as big a deal if the volume was dedicated, but if you accidentally bump it it changes from volume to IDK what and starts doing weird technical set up things. It's seriously annoying! I've resorted to popping it out to shut it up a few times. It's one of those things that until you've tried it, at which point it's installed, you don't know exactly how annoying it is!

tam
MsTaboo wrote:
chimivee wrote:
MsTaboo wrote:
I recently bought a sub $200 unit, (actually about $100 from Sony) and the thing had lousy sound

What is/was the rest of your system comprised of? I'm not a huge fan of Sony decks either.


Yeah, Sony has really gone down hill. I bought that one because I had good luck with them in the past.

I use Diamond component speakers and Rockford-Fosgate amps.
The van that has the Sony does not have an amp, just front component
speakers. I'm gonna pull that piece of junk and use it as a filler in a for sale car.
I've had pretty good luck with Alpine also, like the Kenwood layout better.

I want to make clear I didn't intend to start a flame war about mp3 vs CD, it's just that I prefer CDs and wanted to explain why I was looking for a deck without the inputs.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MsTaboo wrote:
Yeah, Sony has really gone down hill. I bought that one because I had good luck with them in the past.


Funny, the inexpensive Boss I just put in the van produces a bit better sound than the newish Sony I took out.

MsTaboo wrote:
I've had pretty good luck with Alpine also, like the Kenwood layout better.


Kenwood does have nice-looking receivers; that's the main reason I bought two of them. However, with the van's, the annoying demo display could not be shut off (followed the directions to the letter, multiple times, and nothing; Googled the problem and, surprise, common issue with that era of Kenwood). And the menus on both of them are a PITA. I sincerely hope Kenwood has improved these faults on their new units because they look really good in older VW's.

MsTaboo wrote:
I want to make clear I didn't intend to start a flame war about mp3 vs CD, it's just that I prefer CDs and wanted to explain why I was looking for a deck without the inputs.


You'll be hard-pressed to find a receiver with everything you want (or, don't want). The majority come with at least one input on the front, CD player or not. IMO, sonicelectronix.com has a much better product selection than Crutchfield (I, personally, haven't cared for Crutchfield at all in the last 10 years).
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Jake de Villiers
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MsTaboo wrote:
Well, new vehicle (Tristar) time for a new stereo. The one that came with the truck is an old Pioneer cassette player, from the "super tuner" age.
Was actually top of the line back in the late 80's, but is just sad now.

Being "old school" I prefer high quality sound to the convenience of MP3/Ipod players and really could care less about the front jack for these toys.
I realize that these things can carry your entire collection of music, and it seems like a good idea, but the loss of sound quality is unacceptable. Why spend all that money on nice speakers and amps when you are only getting a fraction of the music that was originally recorded?
Granted, when driving down the road in our vans the road/wind noise cancels out the difference in quality, but when I camp I like to hear the music in it's entirety.
In order to get the same amount of digital information per song that a CD carries you cannot use the digital compression algorithms that enable so much storage and there goes the advantage. I love the idea of solid state info storage and look forward to the day when a small chip can carry the same information as several CD's but it's not here yet.

All that being said, where can I find a reasonably priced CD player without all the bells and whistles that are crammed into todays head units?
I really miss the days of CD player/changers and easy to use dials. Somehow I just don't see the need for my stereo head unit to give me a light show!
I love my Sirius radio receiver for cross country travel, but even that has poor sound quality. They must be using digital compression music storage instead of CDs.

While I was growing up (showing my age) the push was toward ever better sound. With the advent of CD players we reached the age of no playback hiss or pops. No scratches and fouled tapes, easy track selection and portability.
But, digital profiling of analog music produced a hollow sound and the push was on to better sampling of the original data. CDs and the players became ever closer to the sound quality of vinyl. In our cars we got CD changers which allowed us to select from up to eight different CDs, and if you created your own CDs you could have a nice wide selection from your collection.
Then came MP3s. A great idea, but the small size meant digital compression and there went sound quality. At this same time the music scene started to change to simple tunes heavy in bass (rap) and away from the difficult and time consuming (and talent) of Hi-Fi music. A downward trend for audiophiles.
I know, there is still really good music being made, but the "mass" music scene is just sad and car stereo makers follow trends.

Now it seems as though every head unit out there is geared towards this need to cram every new format into one unit. No more choice of just a simple, HI-Fi sound. Even the most expensive units (which do deliver nice sound) have this idea of cram.
All I want is a HU with AM/FM, plays CDs with a high resolution and has outputs on the rear for satellite radio, amp, and changer. Two dials would be nice instead of trying to access everything from one. Separate bass/treble control (instead of music type profiles) No light show, just easy to read face. And please bring back the changers! Very Happy


I have a last-generation JVC CD Receiver with good power and great sound - and I can actually figure out how to adjust the thing! Wink Fits perfectly, you can adjust the background colour and it has Bluetooth if you want to use your phone while driving.

http://www.amazon.com/JVC-KDR820BT-Wireless-Bluetooth-Receiver/dp/B004VPNKCK

Burr-Brown D/A Converter, too. Wink
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MsTaboo
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thatvwbusguy wrote:
There is no reason to think that high quality sound, stored in a convenient digital format can't be played in the van using current technology. I have been using FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) for at least ten years. As a lossless audio format, it has all the information contained in the source material.
The Kenwood KMM100-u (there are probably other options) is only about $70.00 and plays FLAC files from a front panel USB input. The sound quality will be completely indiscernible from a CD.
Since you can store more than 50 CD's worth of tunes converted to FLAC on a 32GB USB drive that is about the size of a nickle (Sandisk Cruzer Fit, about $20.00), it is a hard combination to beat.


Thanks for the info busguy, I just got done looking into this.
I remember hearing something about that about five years ago, heard there was some trouble with slow response. I had been in a high end stereo store looking into moving into the 21st century. Told the guy (who seemed knowledgeable) about my preference for Hi-Fi and the types of music I usually listen to. He suggested I stay with CDs. (this is where/when I listened and compared mp3 to CD) Sounds like I might need to revisit the lossless formats.
I went to a high end shop about a year ago and the guy there suggested waiting for Neil Youngs digital music service called PONO. It's supposed to launch this year. I might wait to hear how well that works before investing in any new tech. There is some info about it on Wiki but for some reason I couldn't repost the address here.

In any case, I hate having wires dangle from the dash. One of our rigs has the external Sirius setup and all the loose wires drives me nuts! I like having everything tucked away in the dash like stock. I guess this is the main reason I dislike the front mp3/iphone connection.
I also hate paying for bits I don't need or want, but most likely all the circuit boards are the same in the mid range price point so all the decks have the same features.

Thanks for the link Kamz, I had not seen that company yet. It's nice they provide several pictures of the units including the back. (you can see all the "Made in China" stickers Evil or Very Mad )
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MsTaboo,

Nice to hear of someone else resisting the whole digital music crap, and I agree today's tonal range the public accepts sounds remarkably what - shallow? narrow? Dunno, just seems like they spend a fraction on studio development or whatever made the old stuff complex and nuanced. There's never a silent instant in today's music - like they just feel compelled to keep adding layers, and beats, and more cleverness. Yeesh. Get back to music, eh?

Anyhow we're probably of the same generation, and my pickiness on musical quality is definitely in the narrow end of things. I have guarded my hearing all my adult life, and even wear Etymotic ear plugs at school functions, public events (clapping around me is irritatingly loud). They knock off decibels.

Anyhow, I recently put a basic audio system in a classic Audi I drive daily. When all was said and done, the system reproduced sound so well I could hear the CD bearings/motor at the threshold of hearing. Soldered a ground onto one of the outputs and it went dead silent. Meaning in a silent garage, cranked so the first note will make you jump - dead silent. That said, I suspect I'm singing your tune.

Can't help you on the annoying modern displays, but I feel the same way. I looked at gear at several audio shops, and went through the display menus of perhaps 20 different head units and chose the Pioneers as the most logical and user friendly. Still have a few annoying buttons and such. The unit I chose is the DEHX6600BT. Mid line, has the good amp, plenty of features.

Speakers, went with Pioneer TS-D series which are just below their full on pricey ones and this is why I posted for you. They sound absolutely amazing - really. For under 150/pair they blew me away. Rubber surrounds, stout cones, solid frames. They stay with the music faithfully all the way to full throttle. You can hear the broken reed on that Kenny G album, vocalists drawing a breath, clearly make out each syllable of a word. Like being there.

Everything else is whatever you want to add as to amps, subs and such. These are powered by the head unit and I put in a separate powered sub. But thought I'd let you know what a fellow old schooler with excellent hearing came up with. I used to be a product developer for GM and Lexus and have done a lot of audio evaluation. My 12 year old son loves music but is a modern type with the earbuds, MP3 stuff, etc. In a cool Dad/son episode when I had the system installed I invited him out to sit in the dark garage to help me do a final tune on the system and used Dire Straights' Brothers In Arms CD. He was stunned at the musical reproduction (our other cars are all factory stereos) and the things he could hear. As a surprise, I'd bought one of his albums for him on CD (Fun it's called) and we listened to it as well. He could not believe how much music he's grown up not knowing he was missing.

So just my thoughts on the matter.

DougM
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tam_shops wrote:

I *hate* my Sony Stereo b/c of the way the buttons work. The "off* button is this tiny little thing hidden in the corner, which wouldn't be as big a deal if the volume was dedicated, but if you accidentally bump it it changes from volume to IDK what and starts doing weird technical set up things. It's seriously annoying! I've resorted to popping it out to shut it up a few times. It's one of those things that until you've tried it, at which point it's installed, you don't know exactly how annoying it is!

tam

totally agree..another old guy here ...used to be able to reach down and shift volume/fade/balance/ channel on the fly, by feel.
...now Rolling Eyes Its input /select /menu / audio/ ..OH YAY balance Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Repeat all of the above..etc
...and you have to watch the screen to do it.
What Mooron invented this junk?
...OH Yeah same guy who put the OFF button on the "Start " menu
...Did he have a drivers license? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
I want to control my audio, by feel, quickly, easliy in the dark with out reading a stupid scrolling menu Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm an older guy as well but with younger children, so my focus has shifted from a purist to a convenience finder.

With the new stereo I'm looking at all I need to do is yell:

"Siri, play Neil Young shuffled" and poof like magic it does.

For basic controls like mode, volume and on/off they usually come with a small remote control that can attach to the steering wheel for thumb control.

I'm going to adjust the equalizer/balance and audio once and let it be.

Embrace what your to tired to beat.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake de Villiers wrote:
Parts Express has two Boss units and a Pyle one too:
http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=995


I bought a Pyle am/fm media receiver with blue tooth new off amazon for 40 bucks on sale. no tax, free shipping. It wont win any Stereo contests but it plays the music off my phone wirelessly and will accept SD card, USB and iPod input as well. If you want great sound, put your money into amps and speakers.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now this is what I'm talking about!
If I could only win that lottery Cool

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mcintosh-MX5000-head-unit-...1232536015

This head unit is over the top in quality, but is an example of the kind of car stereo that used to be available.
It is interesting that the high end auto makers are starting to come back to quality sound systems in their products.

http://www.whathifi.com/blog/why-car-hifi-should-be-taken-seriously
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goffoz wrote:
totally agree..another old guy here ...used to be able to reach down and shift volume/fade/balance/ channel on the fly, by feel.
...now Rolling Eyes Its input /select /menu / audio/ ..OH YAY balance Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Repeat all of the above..etc
...and you have to watch the screen to do it.
What Mooron invented this junk?
...OH Yeah same guy who put the OFF button on the "Start " menu
...Did he have a drivers license? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
I want to control my audio, by feel, quickly, easliy in the dark with out reading a stupid scrolling menu Evil or Very Mad


Agree on all counts: simplicity, tuning knobs, no seizure-inducing displays, etc. Although, the new Boss I have is quite simpler than the previous Sony and Kenwood as far as menu and display go. It'd be nice if receiver manufacturers made a couple units in their catalog resembling the old-yet-modern (does make sense? Laughing ) styles of yore, but with (or even without) modern device inputs:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Back seat passenger: "Don't want to hear music!"
Front seat passenger: "Well, I do!"
Solution: Turn rear speakers off. VW Heidelberg radio shown up ^there: Reach up and turn the fader dial. Modern aftermarket units: Menu > Balance > Rear > Down > Menu (or some such combo, which usually requires getting the manual out because you've forgotten how to access that feature). Now, which version is safer to do while driving? Rolling Eyes

^That scenario actually took place in my van and it's a good thing the rear seat passenger spoke up before backing out of the driveway. I had to get the manual out, read how to access the fader control on the now-long-gone Kenwood, and then do the adjusting (which required the remote control). As for balance, bass, treble, and all that, I set a baseline and leave it, even if it means suffering through a few poorly-sounding songs. I'm not an audiophile, but those are just absurd things to have to do.

MsTaboo wrote:
Now this is what I'm talking about!
If I could only win that lottery Cool

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mcintosh-MX5000-head-unit-...1232536015


Starting bid $2,425.00?!
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Wow... that thing must indeed be rare!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been spending the morning/afternoon looking through the new offerings of head units.
What really kills me is each company has 8-12 different units that all range in price from under $100 to $500. All the decks basically look the same, have the same layouts, and vary only vary slightly in what features offered.
If they're gonna have so many different decks in similar price range why not offer something in the "old school" style?
Every company sells basically the same deck. Very little difference in each of the different categories.

Kamz, I completely agree about accessing the controls. I hate menus! It's not like we're sitting at our desks, we're driving. No wonder there are so many distracted drivers out there.

I have started looking on feabay, but used is used. There are a few NOS units for sell, but not much.

Check out how that McIntosh is built. Copper chassis, analog volume control, separate balance/fader, and the specs are fantastic.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a cheap unit online (it was about $200) that has blue-tooth for both playing music and answering phone calls, can play DVD's and with the switch wired in an be both a backup camera and a rear-view mirror while driving.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/p_25936_Absolute_DMR-760BT.aspx
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, here's the best I've found so far. It's only $1400 Shocked
Pioneer DEX-P99RS
The next down the list is $400., and has all the usual BS.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Car/CD-Receivers

So, a thousand dollar bill to get two knobs!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

find a wrecked Lexus or Range Rover and pull all the stereo stuff out
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.amazon.com/Blaupunkt-Francisco-Receiver-iPhone-Control/dp/B008FYFBIY
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've posted the Nakamichi cd400 in so many threads that I refuse to do it again. And a lot of people choke on the price...for good reason. As a more affordable alternative I would suggest trying this CD300 for clean sound, even power, and a relatively bling-free design. Much more timeless looking than anything with a big glossy front panel anyway. Definitely the route I would go if I was looking to spend less than $200. But don't take my word for it on quality, find the the audiophile reviews (not crutchfield or amazon).

http://www.amazon.com/CD-300-Nakamichi-Player-Full...+nakamichi

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here it is installed in a car. Note the LCD panel can change to orange to be even more low key looking.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelhead wrote:
I've posted the Nakamichi cd400 in so many threads that I refuse to do it again. And a lot of people choke on the price...for good reason. As a more affordable alternative I would suggest trying this CD300 for clean sound, even power, and a relatively bling-free design. Much more timeless looking than anything with a big glossy front panel anyway. Definitely the route I would go if I was looking to spend less than $200. But don't take my word for it on quality, find the the audiophile reviews (not crutchfield or amazon).
http://www.amazon.com/CD-300-Nakamichi-Player-Full...+nakamichi
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here it is installed in a car. Note the LCD panel can change to orange to be even more low key looking.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Steelhead, is that unit made in China? How well does the CD player work, any skips or jams?
I was doing some research and came across those and some other models. There are a few "made in Japan" units being sold, but the reviews on those said they are prone to skipping and jamming.
Apparently the company has been sold to the Chinese and is now made there.
Too bad, as these are what I'm looking for.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is a CD400. About 5 years old. No jams...only skips with poorly burned CDs on bad roads with very stiff suspension. Don't know anything about the 300 model and where its being made. China manufacturing doesn't scare me. Do you own an iPhone?

The most incredible non-skip CD player I've ever owned was the Sony cdx-mp70. I'm sure the mp80 is great too. Only head unit I've ever seen that has a tray...this was the secret sauce. Never skipped in a big old jacked full size jeep. Never ever ever. Great unit..excellent sound....could probably be found on eBay. MP80 probably even better and has more black and less silver on its face.
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'77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper)
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