Author |
Message |
pomfritz Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2014 Posts: 477 Location: Folsom, CA
|
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:16 pm Post subject: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
I just installed SS cooling pipes, going to 1.5" from the metal 1.25". Refilled with about 2 gallons of coolant/water and bled. That seems to be the amount that I collected during disassembly.
Temps seem in range while driving, but noticed it climb at stops. Decided to see if the fan would go on so tonite I started it up and let it run in the driveway.
Temp started climbing past 3/4 mark. The fan did not go on. I had this problem during the summer and was fixed by running a new ground wire to the frame. Fan was working fine after that.
So I am thinking maybe some wiring got jostled during the pipe install? Is there something in that area that could get damaged/disconnected regarding the fan?
However something else seemed pretty odd to me. I had the grill off and felt the radiator and it was cool, the same thing with the hoses running to the rad.
I would have thought these couldn't even be touched at the temp it got to.
Would a bad thermostat cause this? It's brand new, as part of the new GW engine installed 3 months ago.
If for some reason I got my feed/returns messed up would the flow be so restricted that this could happen? _________________ 83.5 233K. GW 2.3, SS exhaust, My German Frau named her Stefi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
|
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
pomfritz wrote: |
... Would a bad thermostat cause this? It's brand new ... |
FWIW
I don't have the knowledge to answer the question, But new thermostats and new condensers have the reputation for sometimes being bad out of the box. Should be easy to check with a thermometer in a pot of water on the stove.
Aloha
tp |
|
Back to top |
|
|
levi Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2005 Posts: 5522 Location: Las Vegas
|
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
Sounds like air in the system. Btw, it's just a little under 4 gallons total in the system, but it's tough to get it all out of there. _________________ One of these days I'm gonna settle down,
but till I do I won't be hangin round.
Going down that long lonesome highway,
gonna see life my way
https://youtu.be/cSrL0BXsO40 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pomfritz Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2014 Posts: 477 Location: Folsom, CA
|
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
Interesting, I spent some time bleeding it, using the GW pump. I had coolant coming out the bleed valve on the radiator. Might have to check this again. I am thinking that the sensor on the radiator is not getting hot enough to turn the fan on so if I can figure out this flow thing, the fan should come on. _________________ 83.5 233K. GW 2.3, SS exhaust, My German Frau named her Stefi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50254
|
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
If you don't have an IR gun available to tell you what th engine temp is then dribble some water on the block and watch what happens to it. The faster it evaporates the hotter the engine. As the temperature gets up close to 212°F the water will disappear in short order. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pomfritz Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2014 Posts: 477 Location: Folsom, CA
|
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
Its possible my thermostat is bad. I put in water with a thermometer and nothing appeared to happen at 185 deg and above. Did this twice with no movement. I called VC to discuss and order a new one. They said that might not be a good way to test. As the thermostat needs something to hold it like the housing for it to open. Any thoughts? I always thought the pan of water was a good way to test it.
Second, I'd like to make sure I know how the coolant flows. I have a Bentley but there are a few things not clear to me from it.
Here is how I think it should work:
On the radiator, there are the two hose connections.
1. One angles down, The cooled coolant flows away from the radiator out this outlet.
2. The other connection is at 90 deg from the radiator, It looks like it connects to the upward pathway along the side of the radiator. This wold be the hot coolant coming from the engine.
On the t stat housing:
3. The upper thermostat housing, has hot coolant leaving the engine back to the radiator
4. The lower Thermostat housing has the cooled coolant from the radiator.
This is how it is setup on mine, can I get a confirmation? _________________ 83.5 233K. GW 2.3, SS exhaust, My German Frau named her Stefi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005 Posts: 4855 Location: Kaneohe
|
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
The thermostat should open all by itself in the pot of hot water. Thermostats, spark plugs, and condensers are sometimes bad out of the box.
Google Vanagon Cooling System Images
You should find your answers there better than I can explain it.
Aloha
tp |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Butcher Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2015 Posts: 1285 Location: Right Here
|
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
Much of it at times simply made up. |
Define 'Much', because the 30 years that I have worked at the dealership, I can only say the rare times they are right is when they're not talking. The technicians in the back can be almost as scary [but they are factory trained, which gives them a certificate that they know it all]. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vanagonjr Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010 Posts: 3424 Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
|
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
I tested 3 thermostats simultaneously; the one I took out of the van, a new Wahler and, I think, perhaps a Behr. All were 87C, all 3 behaved differently.
One open first, but not as far as another. Another opened at the same time as another, but took a while to open all the way.
If I had only been testing one, I probably would have felt fine, but seeing how all 3 behaved so differently left wondering which one was the best one - seemed like the old one that opened the most was likely best. _________________ John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
LiMBO (late model bus club) www.limbobus.org
LiMBO is on Facebook too! https://www.facebook.com/groups/
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pomfritz Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2014 Posts: 477 Location: Folsom, CA
|
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
I tried it again after watching a video. It opens up when it should. I just was expecting something more noticeable
I thought that answer from VC was a little strange too.
So off to figure out another reason for this issue _________________ 83.5 233K. GW 2.3, SS exhaust, My German Frau named her Stefi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
|
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
When your all done finding out if the thermostat is working, and get it mounted back in the thermostat housing, call the VC and order a new radiator.
The fan isn't kicking on because that portion of the radiator is plugged up and not allowing the switch to kick on.
This is why your radiator is cold & the temp gauge is showing hot.
No flow. _________________ T.K. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pomfritz Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2014 Posts: 477 Location: Folsom, CA
|
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
Well the radiator is about 6 months new. I wish I could point to some old and worn out item, but the cooling system has been refreshed as part of my paranoia of not overheating the new engine.
I was thinking there was some blockage but i've pulled some hoses out so far and all looks good. _________________ 83.5 233K. GW 2.3, SS exhaust, My German Frau named her Stefi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pomfritz Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2014 Posts: 477 Location: Folsom, CA
|
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
Well I'm putting things back together and ran into a problem.
There are two bolts that attach the lower thermostat housing to the upper housing.
One of the holes in the upper that the bolt screws into appears to be stripped. I can't get the bolt to tighten it just spins. I tried cutting down a longer bolt to get more threads and that worked but it also caused a problem in that it now blocked the pathway for the other bolt that attaches the housing to the block. Arghh.
So I can source another housing but I am going to see about getting mine fixed. I will take it to a machine shop and have them either recap it or bore it out to a M8 size, currently it's a M6.
Just looking down into the hole of this bad thread, it looks like it was very worn or just not machined very good to begin with. one half of the hole was very smooth and looks like there wasn't much for the threads to grab into. _________________ 83.5 233K. GW 2.3, SS exhaust, My German Frau named her Stefi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
2wdvanagon Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2011 Posts: 106 Location: Fair Oaks, CA
|
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
I would tap that baby out to a M8 and be done with it. Also, It seems unlikely that the thermostat would go bad at the same moment that the coolant pipes were replaced. It sounds like you have lots of air in the system. You should be getting well over 3 1/2 gallons in there. Use a Libby bong and make sure you have the heater valve open. PM me if you want to borrow mine. I'm in Fair Oaks. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mellow Yellow 74 Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2014 Posts: 1615 Location: Sydney, Australia
|
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
2wdvanagon wrote: |
It seems unlikely that the thermostat would go bad at the same moment that the coolant pipes were replaced. It sounds like you have lots of air in the system. |
I agree with this, but it is more likely that the thermostat would be bad than it is that the radiator would suddenly become totally blocked up like TK thinks, lol. _________________ 1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32432 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Terry Kay Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003 Posts: 13331
|
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
From the original post, & I did take another look-see, I didn't find anything mentioned regarding a newly / recently installed radiator.
This in itself is an oddity , it usually is the last item considered.
Bravo, you did the job right.
With this in mind, I will change my tune, I think your on the correct path in considering the thermostat.
When your all done with this, bleed the cooling system well.
See what happens. _________________ T.K. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Hatterasker Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2011 Posts: 207 Location: Pacific Northwest
|
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
I would love to hear the solution to your OP, Pomfritz. I am having the exact same issue. _________________ 1990 Vanagon Westfalia |
|
Back to top |
|
|
E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6369 Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2023 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Cooling issue: engine hot, radiator is cool |
|
|
This thread’s nearly eight years old, and most never tell us the end of the story anyway.
Some will tell you to search but I’d start a new thread with a telling title, and all the details. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|