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Springs on a 2wd Auto
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:48 am    Post subject: Springs on a 2wd Auto Reply with quote

Hi,

I am debating on replacing the original springs as they're a bit weak.

Being as I'm nearly finished with my 5 month restore process covering engine/bay/tranny/primary systems, springs were a concern as I'm tossing on new wheels/tires, where I think I need a little more clearance.

I've read some articles found by the search, but all those articles are older.

I'm curious about Gowesty's 1.5" spring and balljoint spacer.. as I have some bucks to spend there.. I'd thought about getting their setup unless something is blatently wrong with it..

Curious about other products as well.

This is a 90 multivan which is getting 225/65/16's next week, Nokian WR C Cargos are on the way, should be delivered mid week.

So, I have about a week..

Thanks!

Al
Seattle
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eeebee Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But what so you expect/desire from the change?
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GBA 88West LA
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i did the GW set up springs and bilsteins and couldnt be happier its quite the lift , especially when compared to saggy stock springs that have settled with time, it definately stretches things out to its limits suspension wise, i originally had 14's on and experienced some hopping on the front when the rear end was weighted since ive gotten 16's and the hop has gone, it sits very level no squat in rear or side to side, couldnt be happier
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GBA 88West LA wrote:
i did the GW set up springs and bilsteins and couldnt be happier its quite the lift , especially when compared to saggy stock springs that have settled with time, it definately stretches things out to its limits suspension wise, i originally had 14's on and experienced some hopping on the front when the rear end was weighted since ive gotten 16's and the hop has gone, it sits very level no squat in rear or side to side, couldnt be happier
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This is what I want.

I love your van. Thank you for the positive feedback.

Thanks for the pic!


btw, my van is also from West LA

this was the pic of it last april..
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chojinchef
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went the other way.

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Weitec lowering springs and Bilstein shocks all around. Have 15 inch wheels with 205's. Lowered the van a little over an inch. Ride is still real good, bit firmer but good.

LP
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madspaniard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting thread. I also have an auto 2WD. I've also been looking at this issue. It sounds like we don't have many options from the usual vendors:

* Syncro.org springs.

http://syncro.org/schwenksprings/vanagon_springs.html

I'm not even sure they are still available. Van Cafe used to sell the them but they discontinued sales and came up with their own springs. They have mixed reviews here in The Samba and other forums. I had a set in a box for a long time, installed them not long ago and I don't like them at all. The nose dips too much during stops and the rear is sagging, I had to use spacers, it took a lot of shimming on the left rear to correct the westy lean. I will change them soon, it sounds like they had some issues with some batches of these springs, ughh!

Read this thread

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=273255&highlight=syncro+org

* Bus Depot sells these below, not sure who fabricates them

http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=251411105A952
http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=251511105952

* Van Cafe. They recently came up with these springs designed after the syncro.org springs but I'm not 100% sure, I have not been able to find feedback on these springs yet, too early

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_837_533/2wd_springs.html

The "before" and "after" pics on this ad don't help much, I can't see the difference.

* GoWesty: they used to sell german progressive H&R 1.5" lift springs, not anymore. They just came up with these new progressive springs made in USA, again, too early for feedback

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=23481&category_id=&category_parent_id=

I don't know what I will end up doing, do I take a chance with VanCafe's springs after my personal bad experience with syncro.org springs or do I go with GoWesty new kit? I have stock engine if that is a concern with progressive springs but an engine conversion is in the horizon.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two threads similar to this. They talk about Moog 5660 springs which raise the front 1.5" or so and Monroe Coil Shocks that replace the original shocks and the coils give it extra lift, also about 1.5". The Moogs cost about $60/pr and the Monroe shocks cost $85/pr at rockauto. Feedback in those threads was all positive.

That's what I am thinking of doing.
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buildyourown
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moog 5662 springs in the front and monroe helper shocks in the rear.
Cheaper than a full set of springs and allows you to tune the rear based on payload.
The trade-off is lose of damping in performance over a premium shock
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madspaniard
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

more info about those choices here

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1...p;start=20
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: SUSPENSION PICS OR GTFO...... Reply with quote

The problem, is similar problem on the Tire/wheel thread and is certainly lacking... is pictures.

I can tell you as soon as I toss a set on, pictures will be had, and they will be posted to this thread.

I am leaning toward the Gowesty 1.5 as they also include that balljoint extender and that makes sense to me. Also does the preloading makes total sense.

More thoughts on this matter are definitely welcome.

as for GW, their springs are made by HR springs.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agree about the pics but that will only show you ride height, there is so much that can't be seen in pics and you need to hear feedback about it, are they stiff, firm, harsh, responsive, how about cornering? You could be looking peachy with your new springs but for me it is all about performance
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PIRATE
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lift is great but 225 65 will change your gear ratio I think there is a certain limit to what tire you can install on a auto trans with a stock 2.1 l
It really hurts your low end but it's great at highway speeds.

Someone will chime in that has more knowledge than me and let you now what size tire you can run. But the springs are awsome
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear ya, already bought 225/65/16's.. a 27.5 inch tire shouldnt be that bad, stock is what, like 25.5?

Its also got a 3.73 ring and pinion with a 2.25L and some engine work, pretty much everything (systems/bayside) are on this fresh build.

Its been in my buddy's garage since Feb.

I'm ready to rock this thing.
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PDXWesty
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 27's on my van and the ride height is about 17". It does fine with that size, 2.1 automatic trans. You shouldn't have any problems if you go with new springs.
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JeffRobenolt
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean 3.73 R&P and a 2.25????

I have 225 75 15's with a Suby 2.2 and an auto and that is pushing it.

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dubbified
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rebuilt the engine, went with 96mm Pistons =2.25 Liter engine, also used Ratio Rockers 1.25 with updated "feet".

I rebuilt the transmission, went with a Peliquins LSD for the Automatic, and a 3.73 Ring and Pinion.

After putting limited slip in my Gti.. I'm a firm beleiver. I wont own another car without one.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where did you find a 3.73??

I hope that motor puts out a lot of torque, like 150 or more or I think you might have problems on the hills.

Jeff
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germantransaxle
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wenholzm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Springs on a 2wd Auto Reply with quote

dubbified wrote:
Hi,

I am debating on replacing the original springs as they're a bit weak.


How do you know they are weak? By age? By Milage? By squeaks? By bouncing up and down? By too much weight? I just put Bilsteins on my Van had some improvement on the road. I bought the bushing kit and ball joints from Van Cafe and will install soon. I guess the last thing left in the Suspension to change are the coils. A mechanic in California told me if it was his van he would change the coils, better yet he said he would put on the air cushions for more support and a better ride. Anyway back to my question, how do you know?

Thanks
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dubbified
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you know?

Ideally a bit of insight both to the in person condition (they're ok looking) to the feel/sound/feedback with how it drives in various conditions.

After I picked up the van last spring, I pulled the front suspension apart, restored it all to new, replaced all bushings, cleaning, and painting each component as they were seeing some rust, cleaning the springs/suspension in process undercoating.

Generally my real decision to do this was by being on couple backwoods trails before I tore the van down for restore in Feb, I noticed it wasnt maintaining ride height as good as I'd like, and I was nowhere near as loaded as its going to get for my trips up to Northern Canada Territories/US rockies next year, maybe a short one this fall, if I bust nuts and get this project done.

Tires are taller/wider. I will need some additional clearance.

As far as how much these springs can tolerate.. I gotta do more investigation.. I may replace the hydraulics at some point to something which is known shape, and will help with my setup.

I am also thinking about the future application and setup of my rig. We're setting it up like this to be anything from personal command center for search and rescue efforts, easy weekend getaways, longer vacations throughout North/South America(hopefully).

I'm going to be packing one primary class 42 deep, 2/3 auxillary, 8-18G propane, 35-50G of water, a heated shower setup, kitchenette, greywater storage, a ton of camping gear, awning, electronics, when on vacation probably 4-5 people aboard.. not to mention things like fridge, generator, rear hitch based storage, locking arm rack system for storage/propane/water, tire holder and the steel bumpers also are much heavier than the fiberglass.

The springs and bilstein shocks are unknown from the Previous owner, although they work, look ok, sound ok, drive ok from what I can tell, I have little room for comparison with a van, as this is my first.

While I'm considering springs, I'm also wondering if Urethane is a worthwhile endeavor.


Last edited by dubbified on Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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