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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Update on roof removal...
I've managed to pull all of the sealant from the right hand side... The metal lip is not in as good a condition as the other side.
Nice to see that the part number is still visible.
The small pry bar and a soft faced hammer are a good combination giving control and some feel to what's going on.
Once all the sealant is out, the lip (what's left of it) needs to be bent up out of the way.
I found that a snap-on rear brake adjusting tool was perfect for this job.
The tool lifts up the metal lip, pushing against the roof but it's using so much surface area to work against that it doesn't damage the roof.
The front of the roof is a different design from all the T3 vans as it has to incorporate the same lip for the front of the fiberglass.
A pile of rubbish which is going in the bin!
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yesterday was a fairly good day for getting van stuff done.
The Poptop roof went to it's new owner and I got back to removing the hightop roof from it's metal structure.
I managed to use the same proceedure at the front with the Brake adjusting tool bending the metal lip up off the fibreglass and then started going around the roof trying to seperate the fibreglass from the metal.
I was expecting this to be a lot hard than it was. Because the roof has been on there for 20 years or so, the glue has gone very hard and brittle and in some places, it wasn't connected at all.
I did originally want to try to remove the metal frame which sits up inside the fibreglass roof, with the fibreglass roof at the same time. As such I went around and drilled out any remaining rivetts, removed the bolts and unscrewed the small pieces which connect from the frame to the skylight surrounds. It was at this point that I realised that the rear skylight sealant had completely failed and I could lift the skylight out as it was no longer connected to the roof!
From inside the roof, I used a pry bar to twist between the fibreglass and the metal just to move it enough so that it would break the glue and allow the fibreglass to move. The only bit you can't do this on is the back which has a metal section bonded into the roof.
I then looked at ways of putting pressure between the roof at the front and the roof frame but so that there wouldn't be any chance of damaging the fibreglass by lifting at a small point. I used a Syncro propshaft protection bar to sit on top of the frame along with some hardwood along with a block of wood and my trusty bottle jack to prise to the two apart.
It worked very well and I was able to see movement immediately and go around the areas (again from inside) and apply pressure to the areas that were still stuck.
It was at this point that I realised that I was not going to be able to remove the fibreglass section along with it's internal frame together. They are designed to be moved seperatelt. As such, I removed the window and unstuck the small piece of headlight material which is stretched between the bottom lip of the window apperture and the internal frame. Also, I removed the screws holding the the supports to the skylight surrounds so that they (as they should be glued to the inside of the fibreglass) can come away from the internal frame.
It was fairly late by now so I called it a day and hopefully I'll be able to lift the roof away from the metal roof and start looking at which bits I need to seperate and weld into Limey's roof.
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I've managed to get the roof apart
Having drilled out all the rivets in the rear panel
and then carefully prising the panels apart
and putting the bar across inside, jacking up against the roof with suitable boards to spread the load the back started to move.
I had to get in with a bar in the corners and cut through the remainder of the glue.
Now that it was totally seperate from the metal roof. I put Limey next to the Bluestar and lifted the roof across. It sounds really easy when you write it down!! The reality was that it was a real bugger to lift high enough to clear the frame.
Limey looks a little different with that top on.
I have to say a BIG thanks to my neighbours on both sides for A) helping lift the roof across and B) for letting me use their drive.
Now you can see the frame more clearly.
It's not too heavy but heavier than the fibreglass roof.
And finally the metal roof which I have to remove all the special brackets etc from.
Kathryn wasn't too impressed at this point
Now my wife has a new garden ornament
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Wow. _________________ ☮️ |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16474 Location: Brookeville, MD
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17014 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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That top was really attached to the van. Almost unibody in design. I am watching. _________________ ☮️ |
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xriss55 Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 97
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Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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nice swift progress there mike the finished artical aught too look not too disimilar to my blue hochdach as seen here ..keep up the good work cant wait too see limes new head-gear ...chris
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syncrosimon Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2008 Posts: 257 Location: Devon, England
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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bloody marvellous
This is the inside of my factory hightop. There is quite a lot of stuff added in Finland to support the interior panels. The big hoop is the standard bit. I bet it is crash tested.
A little drawing from the Finnish Army Fitters I found under the insulation.
_________________ 1991 16" 2.1 DJ Syncro factory hightop ex Finnish Army Ambulance, now sold.
Thinking about Thing or 181 (182) ownership. |
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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Simon. It looks like the metal roof of the van is the same from what I've seen so far.
Do you have any photos of the front corners? Also does your van have the 3 small brackets up front?
Cheers.
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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syncrosimon Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2008 Posts: 257 Location: Devon, England
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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I am sure that it does have the three brackets, but they are used to support the wooden platform above the cab.
I cant get into the front corners, just not enough room. _________________ 1991 16" 2.1 DJ Syncro factory hightop ex Finnish Army Ambulance, now sold.
Thinking about Thing or 181 (182) ownership. |
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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:02 am Post subject: |
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I can only see one of the main uprights (rear) which bolts to the metal roof frame, I presume that the other one is there but covered up?
The front brackets make sense. I was expecting that they would support something like a shelf or cupboard.
Talking of front cupboards, when I removed the overhead cupboard from the Westfalia roof, it was held up with 4 large screws into the front internal frame but there was only one small screw in the centre at the front taking all the weight!! I'd love to see other Westfalia Hightop front cupboards to see if they are all like this or not. I'll be modifying something somewhere to make things a lot stronger!
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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Syncroincity Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: New York City
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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Syncroincity wrote: |
Wow, brilliant work so far...
So... are the droplets here blood, sweat, or tears?
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Lol,
That'll be me getting rained upon!!
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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syncropaul Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2010 Posts: 77 Location: Nottinghamshire, England
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Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Mike, I will strip the front end of mine out this week and take pictures.
There's leakage there so the woodwork has to come out anyway.
The sealant on the sides has come away so its not really that secure in places. I'm tempted to gut this Westy poptop roof frame and graft the rear bed channels into mine now.
I have sorted a roof locker (full width) which will sit nicely beneath it too. |
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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Well I've been hard at the roof this afternoon trying to figure out which bits I'm going to use and how to do it.
Having spent some time with the wire brush on the westfalia roof, I can say that the guttering is past it and not worth saving. Especially the front corners. Shame really but maybe it's a blessing in diguise.
Looking at what's involved in removing the whole section (even if it wasn't rusty and holey), the job is huge and not necesairly worth it.
All of the vans that I've seen which have been converted to hightop don't bother with the gutters or the lip, they just glue the roof on. The front lip was a question but looking at this photo...
I can see me doing the same thing. Lots of glue!
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I decided to get physical with the remains of the roof lining in Limey...
The reason for this was so I could check if the inner panels of the roof were the same...
They're the same
Here's the panel (or part of it) that I want to use.
Time to break out the spot weld drill bits...
You get the idea.
After lots of agro and noise
These are the important bits for me.
They're very well secured and not easy to get into to remove. I think I may be chopping up the inner structure just to get them out in once piece.
It's nice that they sit onto the panel and are profiled to fit in one place (vertically) so I only need to worry about front to rear positioning.
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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offroad. Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2009 Posts: 211 Location: llanelli, s wales
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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have you thought of a way where the high top can be fitted but still have the option of going back to the pop top mike.
dont know whether it is even possible. i know the front cupboard wont fit as intended unless you cut the front roof panel out but with some very carefull cutting of the cupboard it can be made to fit over the tin top part of the roof.
could those brackets be bolted to the roof in some way?? |
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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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It hasn't crossed my mind tbh, I just want the roof on and sealed up. Then I get back to the other two projects.
Maybe this is one for you Lee?
I'm fairly sure you could have a clip on roof with a large rubber seal which would work. Lots of garage space needed to store all the parts in though.
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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SyncroGhia Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009 Posts: 2458 Location: Highnam, UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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A friend PM'd me recently with a link to his Syncro 16 having a hightop fitted and I managed to get a few images from it.
After looking at this, it occured to me that I don't really need anything from the origina roof apart from the support brackets for the frame.
As the roof frame was taking up space in the garden, I decided to chop it up into smaller pieces which are more managable in the garge.
I have kept enough of the metal so that I can carefully remove the brackets while having reference points as to where they fit on the inner frame. I'll weld these into Limey.
Bits to go to the scrap yard and a roof free garden.
MG _________________ T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD |
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syncropaul Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2010 Posts: 77 Location: Nottinghamshire, England
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Had a look at mine yesterday Mike. It wasn't practical to remove the lining from the hightop as it's bonded in every angle/junction.
However, I can confirm that the bracket shown above is exactly how the roof frame is attached and in the same position.
The roof skin is also laminated over the frame on the inside so there is no chance of it seperating. |
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