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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Hi Doug,
Thanks, that's a good idea and definitely something I'll look into. I think the shape of the window, I could end up having to make up a frame to suit the window.
Will look up the 3M marine deck bonding glue. Thanks for the tip... I've been wondering what to use as I only want to do this once!
MG
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AdrianC
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Joined: January 13, 2012
Posts: 526
Location: Wherever the road's gone
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Wild guess - could it be from an awning rail or similar? From looking inside, d'you think it'd be strong enough to fix a rail on, given the forces that might be involved in highish winds?
You're right about the external screws on top - our Hightop Club Joker was using the two on the non-slider side when we bought the van, for the top of a surfboard rack, also clamped to the gutter, which held a board along the side of the roof, then lowered it down for access.
I'm liking all the pics you've posted - I've really got to get around to dismantling one of the skylights to sort a drip in heavy rain. A bit of Cap'n Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure seems to have sorted around the front window. Our gutter sealant's badly cracked, so seeing the work you had to remove it has given me cold sweats. One tip - when you re-seal it, don't do as Westy did and FILL the gutters - it means they don't work very well as gutters, and you get drips into the front doors and slider.
I'd also be VERY interested in any pics you've got of the rear gutter assembly, above the tailgate. Ours leaks here, and without dismantling the tailgate, it's difficult to see why - but it's almost as if there's a channel in there which fills from above and empties out inside. If the van's parked nose-down, we get no leaks (but slide out of bed).
Cheers,
Adrian. |
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Adrian,
Yes an awning rail would make sense looking again.
I have plans to be able to fix lots of different things to the roof... wondering if this is a good idea now 
Thankfully there is a gap between the inner and outer skins so I can put in some more framework where I want to which will give the strength.
I'll definitely be fitting the Fiamma F45i, luggage rack front and rear and some form of external fixings on the sides for fixing sand ladders and/or waffle boards on one side and surf boards on the other.
I don't really like the look of the hightop roof with it's slab sides and have always wanted to be able to carry the extras above so they'll break up the large area.
The rear area around the back with regard to drainage is a tricky one.
It wasn't until I tried to start separating the fibreglass roof from the metal roof that I realised how it is held together.
There is a metal section which is bonded into the fibreglass. I tried fairly hard (before realising that I should not have) to separate this without success (thankfully!).
The metal section is glued onto the van roof metal frame and then riveted through as per the photo.
One part on mine which has suffered (gone rusty) is the most outer part of the metal section just where it disappears into the fibreglass. I only noticed then when the roof blew down last week as more stress was placed on this part when I fitted it to Limey. I haven't yet decided how to fix it.
As to how to fix one which is leaking... I would attack the old glue, clean out as much as possible and then re-glue over the top. Both rear metal corners of the roof had also gone rusty and this isn't accessible without removing the entire roof!
Thanks for the tip re gutters... that makes sense! but I wouldn't have thought of it and would probably have filled it as per Westfalia.
MG
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SyncroGhia
Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Update...
I decided that this weekend was going to be spent on Limey and the hightop.
Looking inside this morning with the sun shining, I could see few things I didn't really want to...
Every bit of light which is shining through is a hole 
I'll think about how to deal with that as the day goes on...
So back off with the roof...
A couple of shots of one of the Syncro 16 specific strengthening panels. This has been well documented but with most things out of the way, you can actually see just how big the panel is.
The panel is fitted before the sliding door runner.
Talking of Syncro 16 specific strengthening panels... I discovered one I didn't know about today.
This is on a standard Syncro 16 tin-top (as Limey was) and is fitted above the sliding door, between the roof frame and roof skin. It starts at the B-pillar and stops about 12 inches beyond the C-pillar.
You can see just how thick the metal is here...
You can see where it stops here.
I managed to get a shot of the end of it inside the skin. I'm not removing all of the skin at this point hence the odd photo.
It doesn't go out to the roof gutter.
I started to cut out the rest of the roof panel inline with the internal roof frame.
At the back, you can see how the roof skin is welded on and this is what the Westfalia bonded in steel plate replaces.
And here is what the back underneath the roof skin looks like.
I haven't removed the skin that the bonded section would replace yet as I'm not sure yet what to do about this looking at the state of the metal which is bonded in...
More metal removed... this is not a view that you will see very often in a Syncro 16!
My that's a big hole! Rag-top Syncro 16 anyone?
After cleaning up a few edges and bolting the tailgate back on, I made an executive decision that I was going to cut the bottom section of the metal bonded plate and then rivet it onto what was left. As it will overlap the current panel and it will be glued, it won't leak.
So I started positioning the roof so that I could cut off the lower portion and the roof fell over... ! by the time I'd go it back where I wanted it, the bonded section of metal was no longer bonded in! In fact it was half way out of the fibreglass.
I guess that this is a blessing in disguise as it's rotten. This is the only piece of metal that I was really looking to transfer across (apart from 4 brackets) and it's not surprising that it's rusty as the rest of the van was too... this was the reason that it was broken.
Soooo... now I have the joy of fabricating up a new panel to bond in and glueing it in place. I haven't messed around with fibreglass much so I'm not looking forward to it.
I don't know whether to remove the inner section of fibreglass and replace it with fresh so that I know that the metal panel will be properly glued in or just smother the new panel with glue and shove it in and hope for the best...
Tomorrow I hope to have the frame in place and the 4 square holes cut for the brackets so that the frame will bolt in place.
MG
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Jedi
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Joined: October 23, 2007
Posts: 734
Location: Cool California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
1961 Westfalia SO23 Mango Green/Seagull grey
1961 Westfalia SO34 T/BW
1961 Westfalia SO34 SWR
1964 Westfalia SO33 pearl white
1965 Westfalia SO42 Velvet green
1986 Syncro Wolfram grey with black int GL
1986 Syncro Doka
1987 Syncro Sevana beige Adventurewagen
1987 syncro Sevana beige GL
1973 Pumpkin orange Thing
2 1963 Rag top bug's
1965 Manx
1970 Single cab
1971 combi
1990 Vanagon GL
2007 Audi A4 3.2L quattro |
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AdrianC
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2012
Posts: 526
Location: Wherever the road's gone
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| SyncroGhia wrote: |
| I don't really like the look of the hightop roof with it's slab sides |
Not even its own mother would call it gorgeous, 'tis true. But it certainly has _presence_, and I don't think we'd be getting half the (overwhelmingly very positive) reactions we do from pedestrians and other drivers if we were in a pop-top or tin-top. We certainly wouldn't have as much storage, and we really do need (or at least use) every bit of it.
| Quote: |
The rear area around the back with regard to drainage is a tricky one.
It wasn't until I tried to start separating the fibreglass roof from the metal roof that I realised how it is held together.
There is a metal section which is bonded into the fibreglass. I tried fairly hard (before realising that I should not have) to separate this without success (thankfully!).
The metal section is glued onto the van roof metal frame and then riveted through as per the photo.
One part on mine which has suffered (gone rusty) is the most outer part of the metal section just where it disappears into the fibreglass. I only noticed then when the roof blew down last week as more stress was placed on this part when I fitted it to Limey. I haven't yet decided how to fix it.
As to how to fix one which is leaking... I would attack the old glue, clean out as much as possible and then re-glue over the top. Both rear metal corners of the roof had also gone rusty and this isn't accessible without removing the entire roof! |
Gotcha.
What I've got is...
LH outer
RH outer
As you can see, a damn good clean-up and re-mastic is required at the very least - which means tailgate off.
LH inner
RH inner
Those do look scary-big gaps. I don't want to fill 'em, because once it gets in, that water's gotta go _somewhere_...
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Adrian
Zookeeper of a miscellany of motoring silliness, from 0.75bhp to 9ft tall.
Living life on the road in an '88 2.1DJ Westfalia Club Joker Hightop.
www.WhereverTheRoadGoes.com |
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yup these Hightops have their foibles!!
Update from today...
I got on with trimming and fabricating the roof skin to accept the support frame.
I start by bending up the edge so that it would meet the inner frame...
The plan was (it changes by the minute!) to do this all the way around as per VW and weld along the edge.
Here's the end of the Syncro 16 specific panel about to be modified!
And have a hole chopped into it.
One bit done...
Getting there with the other...
Time consuming this...
Done.
On with the frame for a check.
It fits... sorta
The side I haven't done yet.
Just giving you an idea as to where the frame sits in relation to the contours of the roof skin.
Sitting in the holes on the other side.
These photos are for checking that it's in about the right place in comparison to the original bracket.
More trimming done. In the end, the roof skin was getting in the way of the frame sitting down fully and as I'm short of time, I've trimming back the roof skin further and will just bend it down to meet the inner frame later on and then tack weld it in place underneath the support frame rather than it being as the original Westfalia.
I've some spot welds to drill out and dressing up to do yet.
In it's proper place.
Just for fun
Now that frame fits, I need to remove the brackets from the sections of roof from the original van, make up a new rear section to bond in (of joy!) and tidy up lots.
I still have the front end to work out. At present I'm looking to chop the roof skin back a bit further and then try bending it out to replicate the Westfalia original... not sure if it'll work or not yet.
MG
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Jedi
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Joined: October 23, 2007
Posts: 734
Location: Cool California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Limey is getting a whole new feel. Now you will have a rig that can really travel for more amounts of time with is new found storage and all weather camping ability. Nothing like a high top syncro for all weather camping and comfort for the whole family. Keep up the good work.
_________________
1961 Westfalia SO23 Mango Green/Seagull grey
1961 Westfalia SO34 T/BW
1961 Westfalia SO34 SWR
1964 Westfalia SO33 pearl white
1965 Westfalia SO42 Velvet green
1986 Syncro Wolfram grey with black int GL
1986 Syncro Doka
1987 Syncro Sevana beige Adventurewagen
1987 syncro Sevana beige GL
1973 Pumpkin orange Thing
2 1963 Rag top bug's
1965 Manx
1970 Single cab
1971 combi
1990 Vanagon GL
2007 Audi A4 3.2L quattro |
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks... it's not a job for the faint hearted.
This is by far the scariest mod I've carried out on Limey.
Nothing like chopping off a roof to keep the blood pumping...!
MG
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offroad.
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Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 211
Location: llanelli, s wales
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Fair play mike. That's a lot of work to take on outside the house.
Crazy.
Lee. |
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Yeah not nice to be doing outside.
I'm trying to do as much as I can here and then fitting it properly at yours 
It's good of you to make the offer of using your garage.. but I'm glad I've started this here as there's lot more preparation to do than I was expecting.
MG
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molybdanum
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Joined: December 27, 2010
Posts: 57
Location: Berkeley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Ghia, excellent vision and follow through. There aren't too many novel threads here, thanks for contributing some of the most interesting.
-Dan
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offroad.
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Joined: January 01, 2009
Posts: 211
Location: llanelli, s wales
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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no probs mike. looking at that is makeing me think twice about doing mine. or may be thrice.
lee. |
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T3man
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Joined: February 08, 2004
Posts: 163
Location: killeen tx
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| Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:37 am Post subject: |
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Hello!
when are there updates? I'm really looking forward to news
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1962 Blue notchback n model
1964 White Variant S Type 3 Squareback Euro
1966 Blue sunroof fastback
1969 Bahama Yellow camper bus
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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SyncroGhia
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Joined: August 21, 2009
Posts: 2458
Location: Highnam, UK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms but every weekend so far has been taken up with other things around etc.
Today was a possibility but it's been raining (lots) all day so useless for a van with no roof!
I hadn't realised how long ago it was since the last post... Jan 31st! 
The only thing I could do today was offer the brackets up into position to get an idea as to how to weld them in.
A few photos...
It's not going to be easy getting in to weld the bottom section down. I'll probably have to remove more of the top skin first and then re-fit.
MG
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Welchmaster
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Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 445
Location: Milwaukie, OR
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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you Rock MG! keep up the good work! really enjoy seeing this come together
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90 2wd Orly Blue Multivan weekender. "Van-Duzer"
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Welchmaster
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Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 445
Location: Milwaukie, OR
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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you Rock MG! keep up the good work! really enjoy seeing this come together
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Welchmaster
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Posts: 445
Location: Milwaukie, OR
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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you Rock MG! keep up the good work! really enjoy seeing this come together
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Mr. Unpopular
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Location: Tampa Florida
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:42 am Post subject: |
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Have you considered using the modern panel bonding "glues" to attach the brackets instead of welding? Supposedly the bonding is stronger than welding as well as the surrounding steel. Surely it would hold those brackets in place.
The initial buy in is kinda high because you need to buy an applicator gun, but you may be able to rent one, plus it will surely save you time over cutting more roof and welding it all up.
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