| Author |
Message |
runyan
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 26
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 10:22 am Post subject: Increase fuel capacity |
 |
|
| So I just bought my split window bus and use it as a daily driver. Unfortunately the standard 10 gallon tank is not quite enough capacity for me, causing me to stop for gas less than every 200 miles. Has anyone replaced their tank with an aftermarket jobby that runs a little larger in size? If so, what size? Any special considerations to make? Will it just drop in, or were there any body mods required? Thanks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69797
Location: Phoenix Metro
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:12 pm Post subject: Increase fuel capacity |
|
|
A bunch of people on the VintageBus list have installed Bay window gas tanks, I think they are 15 gallons?
I see a how to procedure on vintagebus.com, here ya go:
http://www.vintagebus.com/howto/tank.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
runyan
Samba Member
Joined: June 11, 2002
Posts: 26
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:42 pm Post subject: Increase fuel capacity |
|
|
Awesome! The only bummer is that it looks like you have to drop the engine to replace the tank. I guess I'll work on getting a later model tank on hand, and replacing it the first time I need to drop the engine.
Thanks for the direction! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
polo
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Pacific Palisades, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Bringing this baby back up from the past... what's the cut off year after which later model tanks don't fit into a splittie? (In my case its a 65).
If there is a specific cut off year, is there a simple way to visually tell which year a tank is from?
_________________
Michael P.
1965 Kombi
1989 Jetta GL (R.I.P.)
2004 New Beetle Convertible GLS 1.8T
| BumbleBuggy wrote: |
| Nothing is cooler than driving a car that brings joy to the world simply by idling at a light. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thom
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 5943
Location: Sacramento
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think the early bay tanks work best - 68-71
_________________
-Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
M.I.B
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2005
Posts: 297
Location: North Essex County UK
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I was looking at doing this, but have been told that due to the hieght of the bay tank, and the flatter fill pipe, you need a damn tight gas cap to stop the fuel sloshing back out when cornering.
Anyone got an opinion on this story?
_________________
If I am not out on the Indian, or in the garage, I'm back in Afghanistan.
Sliding back into aircooleds after a few years off........... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
polo
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Pacific Palisades, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| thom wrote: |
| I think the early bay tanks work best - 68-71 |
Yeah, I got that. I guess my question is more specific; do the post-71 tanks work too? And if not, is there a quick/simple way to tell the difference? (Like sender location or something?)
_________________
Michael P.
1965 Kombi
1989 Jetta GL (R.I.P.)
2004 New Beetle Convertible GLS 1.8T
| BumbleBuggy wrote: |
| Nothing is cooler than driving a car that brings joy to the world simply by idling at a light. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24729
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| M.I.B wrote: |
I was looking at doing this, but have been told that due to the hieght of the bay tank, and the flatter fill pipe, you need a damn tight gas cap to stop the fuel sloshing back out when cornering.
Anyone got an opinion on this story? |
Somewhat true. Really the big problem with this conversion is to cut, reangle, weld the old or newer tank neck to work properly.
Used the old one off a rusted out tank. Redesigned it so the gas cap end ended up a bit over an inch higher. This helps. Though as always parking the Bus side with the tank neck uphill whenever after filling up the Bus and not driving at least 30 miles. The steeper your streets are crowned or other parking space is tilted the more miles need to keep the leakage from happening.
Post-1971 tanks do not have the same shape on the bottom as the pre-1972 tanks. So they do not fit correctly to the earlier buses. There is even a tank to body seal to keep the engine from sucking heat and dust up from under there!
Since you are going to pull this all out. Get a reserve tap to install in the tank. That way you can shut off the fuel at the tank whenever changing fuel lines or pulling the engine.
Having the fifteen gallon tank and being able to cover 300+ miles is nice when needed in the wide open spaces out here.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
polo
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Pacific Palisades, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Post-1971 tanks do not have the same shape on the bottom as the pre-1972 tanks. So they do not fit correctly to the earlier buses. |
Is there a simple way to recognize one from the other in an ad photo?
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Since you are going to pull this all out. Get a reserve tap to install in the tank. That way you can shut off the fuel at the tank whenever changing fuel lines or pulling the engine. |
Good suggestion.
Found this in the gallery:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/280150.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/280149.jpg
Seems a little hokey, but is about my speed. Rubber neck connection, re-used tank straps with 'extensions.' Not entirely sure about the plywood bits...
_________________
Michael P.
1965 Kombi
1989 Jetta GL (R.I.P.)
2004 New Beetle Convertible GLS 1.8T
| BumbleBuggy wrote: |
| Nothing is cooler than driving a car that brings joy to the world simply by idling at a light. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24729
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Best easiest way to tell is the pre-1972 tanks have a threaded outlet that one can install a reserve switch onto. Post-1971 tanks only have an outlet that you can slip on a fuel line directly to the tank.
The wood in the pictures you posted are for shimming the post 1971 tank into place. Even with the rubber neck connection you need to reangle the steel neck. NAPA carries the fuel proof rubber tube.
We did extrensions also. That way down the road the stock tank could be installed with no headaches.
Note the strap buffer strips on the newer tank. Using anything that holds water like a sponge in a wet climate like our's will cause rust through the tank and body problems there. Used roofing paper folded up in these areas, and paint contact areas with a little roofing tar keeps the rust away.
The later tank still has the body to tank seal. The pre-1968 seal is same size, but built out of rubber like 1964-67 rear hatch seal.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eaallred
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 5756
Location: West Valley City, Utah
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The 68-71 gas tank fuel sending units will still work with the older fuel gauges too. I total bonus. Best thing I ever did to my old 64 splitty while daily driving it.
_________________
Eric Allred
You have to remember something: Everybody pities the weak; Jealousy you have to earn. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
polo
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Pacific Palisades, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Best easiest way to tell is the pre-1972 tanks have a threaded outlet that one can install a reserve switch onto. Post-1971 tanks only have an outlet that you can slip on a fuel line directly to the tank. |
Thanks!
| Quote: |
| Even with the rubber neck connection you need to reangle the steel neck. |
Even if I use a 65 neck tube? I was going to cut the neck top off my old tank and use the rubber hose to connect it to the new tank. Are you saying that I'd have to modify the 65 neck as well? Or rather that I'd need to modify a later model neck if I get it with the late model tank?
PS: what is the best method to vacate fumes from a tank prior to cutting/welding?
_________________
Michael P.
1965 Kombi
1989 Jetta GL (R.I.P.)
2004 New Beetle Convertible GLS 1.8T
| BumbleBuggy wrote: |
| Nothing is cooler than driving a car that brings joy to the world simply by idling at a light. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
polo
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Pacific Palisades, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| Get a reserve tap to install in the tank. |
I hate to be dense, but can you provide a link or photo? Is that a stock 68-71 item or something I'm adding (basically a shut off valve on the fuel line?)
_________________
Michael P.
1965 Kombi
1989 Jetta GL (R.I.P.)
2004 New Beetle Convertible GLS 1.8T
| BumbleBuggy wrote: |
| Nothing is cooler than driving a car that brings joy to the world simply by idling at a light. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i always thought all bays that had a factory carb, single/dual, had the screw on fuel fitting on the bottom of the tank. i know my 72 had one.
the angle of the metal fuel filler neck was diferent if i remember correctly , to compensate for the fuel filler door being moved back so it could be opened with the cargo door in the open position.
_________________
WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24729
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| polo wrote: |
Even if I use a 65 neck tube? I was going to cut the neck top off my old tank and use the rubber hose to connect it to the new tank. Are you saying that I'd have to modify the 65 neck as well? Or rather that I'd need to modify a later model neck if I get it with the late model tank?
PS: what is the best method to vacate fumes from a tank prior to cutting/welding? |
The post 1967 tanks are higher and thusly the hose connection for the neck is higher. The earlier tank neck needs to bend more and so needs to be reangled. Not doing this and the neck grommet will keep popping loose and the neck will ride on the steel body.
You do not need or want to weld on the tank. Just the neck while it is off the tank. Found easiest way to do this is to hacksaw a thin wedge slice out of the top of the neck. So you only have about 1" of neck still connecting the almost two pieces. Slip in place with new tank and bend to where it works. Remove more steel from the wedge cut area if needed, and when it works right, take it back out and weld on it in a few spots. Slide it back into place and test for fit again. If it still fits right take it back out and finish welding on it.
As for the fuel tap (AKA reserve switch) the search feature on this website works great. 
From the Gallery.
A Bug fuel tap:
A Bus fuel tap:
The innerds of the post-1955 fuel taps are the same. Differance is the way the Bug connects to the reserve handle and the Bus has a arm for cable connection there.
The fuel tap was a stock item in pre-1962 VW, except for the 1961 type 3s. Was continued much later as a stock factory item in the VW Bus Ambulances.
Lots of owner manuals to see if you left click on the "Technical" button at the top of this page, and then on the "Manuals" on the next page. Then pick which type of VW you want to see manuals for....
Here is a page from the 1961 Bus owner manual:
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
polo
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Pacific Palisades, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
The post 1967 tanks are higher and thusly the hose connection for the neck is higher. The earlier tank neck needs to bend more and so needs to be reangled. Not doing this and the neck grommet will keep popping loose and the neck will ride on the steel body.
You do not need or want to weld on the tank. Just the neck while it is off the tank. Found easiest way to do this is to hacksaw a thin wedge slice out of the top of the neck. So you only have about 1" of neck still connecting the almost two pieces. Slip in place with new tank and bend to where it works. Remove more steel from the wedge cut area if needed, and when it works right, take it back out and weld on it in a few spots. Slide it back into place and test for fit again. If it still fits right take it back out and finish welding on it. |
Thanks. In your opinion, which is easier to do; a 71 tank with a modified 65 neck attached to it, or a 71 tank and neck with the 71 neck modified? I gather from your description above I'd have to modify either neck to work with the 71 tank in a 65. But if I use the 71 tank+neck, can I get away with just a neck modification and avoid a rubber hose connection between neck and tank?
| Quote: |
As for the fuel tap (AKA reserve switch) the search feature on this website works great.
|
Yeah, lol. Thanks. I was searching at WW and found them there too. What I'm asking is if its something that already is part of the 71 tank, or is it a retrofit no matter what I do.
As to welding / cutting, what I want to confirm is what to do to completely vacate the 65 tank of fumes before I go to cut off the neck. Even if I use a hand hacksaw to take off that neck, there will be sparks. Is there a trick to getting the fumes out? I was thinking to stick a blower vacuum tube in there for a few hours after draining it completely.
_________________
Michael P.
1965 Kombi
1989 Jetta GL (R.I.P.)
2004 New Beetle Convertible GLS 1.8T
| BumbleBuggy wrote: |
| Nothing is cooler than driving a car that brings joy to the world simply by idling at a light. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Das Dragon
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2000
Posts: 2474
Location: AZ.
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No need to weld at all, use part of the bay tank soft hose or get a comparable fuel safe hose for the connection as in the photo:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/280150.jpg
_________________
Rest In Peace HamburgerBrad, we will never forget you!
_________________________________________________________
DB3 said:
"Awesome!!!
*********'s constant over-estimation of his own importance never ceases to amaze me."
With *****, "Bullshit Happens"! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
polo
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2006
Posts: 418
Location: Pacific Palisades, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, even so... if I'm cutting the 65 neck to use for the transplant, how do I empty the tank that was just full of fuel of all fumes to cut the neck off without ending up like this:
But, yeah, everything I've read about doing this, if I use a 65 neck, I shouldn't need to modify it beyond the cut off the old tank, and the addition of the rubber hose...
_________________
Michael P.
1965 Kombi
1989 Jetta GL (R.I.P.)
2004 New Beetle Convertible GLS 1.8T
| BumbleBuggy wrote: |
| Nothing is cooler than driving a car that brings joy to the world simply by idling at a light. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big bus mike
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2004
Posts: 2230
Location: ABQ
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| On my '65, I found a tank out of a bay that has a factory indentation near where the bellhousing of the transmission sits. It made this SO much easier to install than the style pictured. I have no idea what year / model its out of, as it was loose at a junkyard. I'll take a pic next time I have the engine out. Make sure you tighten the heck out of the clamps when you put it on, as you have to bend the filler neck to install the tank. My hose is now leaking any time the tank is full. I haven't gotten around to fixing it, and so I have to run with the tank at 3/4 capacity, which defeats the purpose of having the larger tank... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RINC
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2005
Posts: 3877
Location: A Sunny Place For Shady People
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Das Dragon wrote: |
No need to weld at all, use part of the bay tank soft hose or get a comparable fuel safe hose for the connection as in the photo:
|
Mine is similar to the pic above.
Sure made it nice to not have to stop for fuel so often on my recent trip to the Classic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
