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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:16 am Post subject: |
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We are tweaking this old motor with some new components so that I can drive it again during the build of the new motor.
Here is the muffler that we are going to use with the 1-7/8" merged exhaust.
Ray had to cut off the flange since it was too small and the wrong configuration, and weld the proper flange on.
The old motor can certainly breathe now.
The tailpipe was too far under the car and caused a loud rumbling inside. I know, I know, good excuse to invest in an amp and subwoofer to drown it out.... But, Ray said it will also turn my fender black, so he welded on a bit more to get the exhaust out from under the car.
It is much quieter now. But, still has a throaty sound that I rather like, even though it's the same old motor. Going to be really interesting to hear the new one.
The downside, it's now running too lean/hot due to the larger exhaust. We are rejetting the idle jets from .45 to .50 and the air corrector jets from 1.70 to 1.85. Going to road test today. _________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Before I get back to the motor build, just a side note: We've rejetted the dual 40's on Hugo's old motor to get it to run well with that large exhaust. They are now running .50mm idle jets, 2.00 air jets, 1.45mm mains. The test will be today, I drive 25 miles to work climbing a steep grade.
So, Ray shortened the barrels by .090 for zero deck using the expanding mandrel. Here's the difference between before and after.
How it's done.
Link
We're within .001 of where we want, we're calling that good.
Link
Now the barrels need to be honed. They come "looking" perfect, but you take a fraction off the surface and irregularities show up as shadows. Then Ray hones a few more times to remove those imperfections (they would have manifested as leakage if not removed).
This is from the factory. Looks fine, right? Smooth surface, no shadows.
This is one that was already done and shows the shadows that are a concern.
Link
After you hone one slightly, these shadows show up. They are irregularities under the surface that WILL manifest themselves once in a working engine. It may sound complicated, but the barrel looks perfect at first, then he hones it lightly to *see* the shadows, then he hones a bit more to *remove* them.
How it's done.
Link
In the video, when the barrel wobbles on the honing machine, that is caused by the lumps that are being removed. When Ray had a dyno, he'd beat them up on dyno (or during a race) and hone again to keep them round. They tend to want to square up because of the voids where the studs are on the outside fins. He's rehoned Tony's barrels several times to keep them round after a race.
All 4 of mine have shadows that cannot be completely removed without making the barrel too large. But they are all near the base of the cylinder below the ring line, so they are not a concern. But you can see the shadow as a horizontal line along near the edge.
_________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210
Last edited by dsimas62 on Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: |
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The new heads are coming along. It's 2-3 days of grinding for each one, very labor intensive. Ray has to be like a sculptor, it's really an art, to get symmetry in a 3D perspective. He's about done with one head and here he is straightening the slight lumps with a rattail file.
This is how he checks for lumps in the head by rocking back and forth to see the curvature symmetry after grinding the intake ports. Focus your eyes on the lower part of the hole to the black hole on the other side. By rocking, your eye can catch any lumps in the curve as it rotates past. This is how he checks his work before calling it good.
Link
Next, we are backcutting the valves to 25 degrees to increase airflow.
Before:
Using a collet chuck, the most accurate chuck there is. The chuck on left is what some valve grinders use.
Link
We have now changed the effective lift of the valve. After:
_________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ray is still working on grinding the manifolds. If you look back in this thread, you will see how they were welded by Bast Bros after Ray cut them to shorten them. They are now 4-1/2" tall, shorter than any Ray has heard of. The shortest he could find prefabbed are 5-1/2". So, now he needed to clean up the welding on the outside. And it's tricky, since there's no telling if he goes too far. He did punch through in one thin spot, so that will be fixed. He still needs to do more porting on them after the exteriors are cleaned up.
One is almost done, the other still needs some more work. But this is several hours of labor just to this point.
Here's the hole. It was a result of having to go far enough in that spot to get a nut to fit there when mounting them.
Ray ran across some lighter weight chromoly wrist pins in his shop over the weekend. Were they worth the extra work to shorten them to fit my pistons? Well, we weighed them and they are 40 grams lighter each, so that would be a YES. Reciprocating parts have to stop each revolution and it yanks on them harder the heavier they are. These will be easer on the rod bearings at high RPM'S. Ray is shooting for this motor turning 8000 and this will help achieve that goal.
He made this cutting block to hold on to the pin so the vice can hold on to it without knocking the pins out of round.
They are too long, so we are removing .010 off the end with the Winona.
Link
Then chamfering the new end's edge.
We will be using spiral locks on them, rather than the Truarc snap rings that they came with. The snap rings, in Ray's experience, fail more.
It is important to clean out the middle of the wrist pins before assembly. This is missed by many. Look at all the stuff inside them.
Ray has assembled the case and we are now going to measure the deck clearance. We have zero deck and are shooting for .040 clearance to allow for rod stretch at high rpms and another .007 for carbon buildup since this will be a street motor (not necessary for a racecar). So, he preloads the dial indicator for .050, put a copper head gasket on the barrel, and we came up needing to use a .010 barrel shim to achieve what we wanted.
Here he demonstrates how this is done with the fixture he built that simulates a head for accuracy. After measuring, he returns the fixture to the plate to be sure that it still says zero to be sure that nothing had moves, the video does not show that.
Link
_________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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padex Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2007 Posts: 121 Location: Newcastle Ca,
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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Man dawn that is so cool your working with ray on this build. |
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VIN Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2006 Posts: 941 Location: phoenix
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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very cool! dig that honing vid.
would it be too much to ask, for better audio _________________ Co-owner, 2 Brothers Guns
[email protected]
Click to view image |
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SRP1 Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2007 Posts: 4340
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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While I may have a very slightly different view on some of the products used in this
build, I must say your blog here Dawn really shows the general masses
what kind of time and effort it takes to properly build one of these engines.
Ray has done a nice job of giving up
just enough info to show the build quality, without giving up the down and dirty
trade secrets. Nicely done, and I wish you and Hugo
the best for many days and miles to come with this new engine.
At the end of the day this engine is destend for a long powerful life....... |
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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VIN wrote: |
very cool! dig that honing vid.
would it be too much to ask, for better audio |
I wish I could VIN. I do it all on my cell phone, I don't have a digital camera so this is the best I can do for ya. I try to tell Ray to speak up, but my phone has it's limits. This whole build documentation was an afterthought since I never can explain to people that Hugo's current motor isn't "just" a 1600cc. This way I can say, "look at the build thread" when they ask.
SRP1 - Thank you so much for the kind comments!
Not much to report today other than Ray found some different rings in his shop that he wants to use, rather than the ones we had. The Sealed Power top rings are chrome, they wear better in dirty conditions and this helps especially if I don't run air filters (I plan on running air filters, but that will take some work to get them to fit).
Here's the chrome top ring next to the second ring.
The scraper (second) ring is CB Performance and is not a Total Seal, but high quality material. It has a step on the edge, which is a better method of moving the oil back.
The oil ring is an SS-50, stainless steel 3 piece rail type with a low drag, also made by Sealed Power. Here's the whole set that I'll be using.
_________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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cjsmitty Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2006 Posts: 811 Location: Meadow Vista CA
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volksnut Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2002 Posts: 380 Location: winter park, florida
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Any updates....the suspense, great build |
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Time for an update!
Ray's been very busy, and has been grinding on the heads and manifolds off and on for weeks, so that just shows how much time goes in to these kind of mods. He really has to be a sculptor and be focused and in the right frame of mind. It's hard to do that in a rush between other work, so the stars have to align and.... Okay, well maybe not like that, but close.
He's ground down the guide bosses in the intakes for even better flow. Compare mine now to Lynda's racebus heads that weren't done this way.
Lynda's bosses:
Mine:
When he put the bosses into the heads, he heats them up 250 degrees to slide the guides in without tearing them up. Without heating, it may shift going in since it now doesn't have a big boss to support it.
The venturi on the 48 IDA's is 37mm (see the stamped # in there).
Ray would like the intake port to be overall larger than the venturi (37). He's gotten it to 40.37 X 36mm port diameter.
Everything in the airway should be larger than the venturi. So that the signal to the venturi is not restricted. He has made sure that the seat pocket is also larger than the venturi in the carb, measured with this snap gauge.
Dual springs are needed to follow the cam profile and the rpm range that we plan on achieving.
The guide bosses on this side need to be cut for the dual springs to fit. The one on the far right is done.
Doing the one on the left now.
Link
We are topping the guides to allow for more lift. I am running 1.3 rockers for longevity. Less wear by less lift. Ray says that there is .060 less lift going from 1.5 to 1.3. Even though we are running less lift than the cam manufacturer recommends, the stock guides will not accept .497 lift the way they are, so we must top the stock guides to accept approxamatley .525 lift.
We are making up for the lack of lift in other areas in the intake runners, intake pockets, and intake valves. Im sorry, I can't say how we are doing this. Trade secret
Link
_________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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As a sidenote: Ray and I took Hugo to a chassis dyno to have the old 28 year old motor that Ray built checked, out of curiosity.
1600cc, dual 40 webers, V26 cam, merged exhaust, racing pulley, 35x31 valves, ported intakes, 8.5:1 compression, never rebuilt, probably 200K miles on it. Stock tranny, close ratio 3rd, stock wheels and tires. Any guesses???? _________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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bill may Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2003 Posts: 14160 Location: san diego,ca
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Dang Bill, you were very close! I posted the question on another forum and got tons of guesses in the 45-65HP range at the rear...
It was 80.1HP and 81 torque at 5400rpms. Surprised even Ray and the dyno tech. I know the thing felt strong, I probably wasn't as surprised, but it was sure exciting to see their faces!
We went to Evil Genius Racing in West Sacramento. I had some trouble finding a dyno that my car wasn't too low to get on. They do racecars, so they have a gradual ramp and nothing in the middle to hit my exhaust or deep sump.
Hank Butler, dyno tech, does an awesome job of strapping it down.
Barely cleared.
Here's Hank calibrating to 3000rpms in the test gear with a digital timing light. I don't have a tachometer.
Link
Top rpm we did 5400, I didn't want to break anything, we were just curious as to approximate HP/Torque. I was worried about pushing it under that load, it's an OLD motor~! The heads run a bit hot right now, as opposed to the oil temp. I think it's because of putting the merged exhaust on recently for the "fun" of it, but the pipes radiate very high heat. I'm not driving it much, just waiting for the new motor to be done and the old heater boxes are going back on when this engine goes into the bus. Hank is great and he does everything very conservatively, I know Hugo was in very good hands.
Link
Best was 80.1 HP, 81 torque, at 5400rpm, and it was still climbing a little. His estimate was 100HP at the flywheel, maybe 84HP at the rear. Just shows you that all the attention to detail that Ray shows (demonstrated by his 1915cc racecar in the 80's and in my build thread), results in amazing things with smaller displacement.
Great fun! We are going back to Evil Genius with the new motor, Hank was great.
http://www.evilgeniusracing.com _________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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bill may Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2003 Posts: 14160 Location: san diego,ca
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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New valves are not perfect out of the box. The head binds in the guide, this is why.
The stem measures 7.91mm.
And the head is 7.94.
He will external hone it to 7.91 also, using this tool.
Link
Semi unshrouded bowls, with the valves in place.
Moving along.... more grinding still needed, then cc'ing the heads. _________________ Dawn
Hugo - '63 ragtop Cal Look bug - Hugo and Dawn - together since 1978
Engine build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482095
Trans build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7602210 |
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vdubnut58 Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2005 Posts: 663 Location: Cali
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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dsimas62 wrote: |
As a sidenote: Ray and I took Hugo to a chassis dyno to have the old 28 year old motor that Ray built checked, out of curiosity.
1600cc, dual 40 webers, V26 cam, merged exhaust, racing pulley, 35x31 valves, ported intakes, 8.5:1 compression, never rebuilt, probably 200K miles on it. Stock tranny, close ratio 3rd, stock wheels and tires. Any guesses???? |
Nice numbers. I know that place
http://youtu.be/mnRkKnG9-SQ |
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dsimas62 Samba Member
Joined: July 18, 2011 Posts: 297 Location: Auburn, CA
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vdubnut58 Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2005 Posts: 663 Location: Cali
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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dsimas62 wrote: |
Nice little ragtop! What did it pull? Engine size? RPMs? Just curious. You can PM me if you want. |
Thanks, it made 165/165 at the wheels @ 6300 RPM. It is a 2332, 48's. pump gas motor. I have a rancho freeway flyer trans. Car runs 12.60's in the 1/4 on pump gas. with drag radials. 13.1's on my street tires. |
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odecom5 Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2006 Posts: 456 Location: CO
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Having just read through this entire thread, I now feel completely helpless and inadequate to build my own engine.
Awesome work, keep it up, and thanks for doing this! Can't wait to see the finished product. |
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