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JeffRobenolt
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 1513
Location: Wisconsin
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 Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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If you got the skills to do it all yourself and are looking for the personal challenge, go for it.
If not just go with a 98-03 ALH, use a 98 computer.
I'm getting 36MPG with mine.
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| jfats808 wrote: |
| Most, some, few is not all. You can always learn something from everyone , even the fool. |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jrobewesty wrote: |
If you got the skills to do it all yourself and are looking for the personal challenge, go for it.
If not just go with a 98-03 ALH, use a 98 computer.
I'm getting 36MPG with mine. |
How fast do you drive on the interstate to get 36mpg? What rpm at your cruising speed? To the original poster's question.
Is the bolt pattern the same still for the older bellhousing? What about the flywheel/crankshaft mounting? The physical installation needs to be accomplished before you can attempt to deal with the electronics. I would think with the donor vehicle, it would be possible to do what you suggest, but you would be on the frontier. We own a JSW and I told my wife if she totals it, the engine will replace our ALH not knowing if it would work or not.
I am very concerned about the HPFP problems being reported. The owner's manual states no more than B5 is acceptable. I don't know if it is because of the "afterburner" or the pump lubricity. Probably not the best candidate for a off the grid syncro, but a good project all the same. mark
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syncrogreg
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Californio wrote: |
So if I am understanding right, the issue is not bolting the engine up--it would fit and there's a bellhousing that would bolt on, etc. etc--but that the engine management system would cost many thousands to get right.
Just thinking of this in terms of a daily driver. Let's say I could get the engine for $3K. Another $10K to get the conversion done?
Where in the Bay Area would you get this done? Doesn't seem like a Buslab type job, maybe Stephan's Autohaus? |
Hey,
I have the full mapping of the 125kw 2.0 Tdi CR, Let me know if your interested in a plug and play ECu.
I'm specialized in the Subaru diesel but will do an exception to help a Samba member.
Greg
_________________
conversions: www.boxeer.com Common rail TDI and NOW PDK transmissions!!
travel pictures:
http://instagram.com/crepeattack/
- the Pastis build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434656&highlight=subaru+diesel |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Greg, could you elaborate a little more on a plug and play ECU for the CR engine? Inquiring minds need to know. thanks mark
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syncrogreg
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Get the plug and play is essentially using the factory engine harness and reduce it to the minimum requirement of the aftermarket ECU in order to operate.
This way you get rid of a lot of sensors such as DPF, EGR, EGT, Throttle body, Air flow meter and more depending on the type of engine (this is already ~20 wires removed).
1/ Put the modified engine harness back on the engine
2/ Bolt the aftermarket ECu to his favorite location (3' long)
3/ Connect ECU to engine harness via prewired connector
4/ Power and ground the ECU relay(s) unit (permanent+12v; contact12V; Ground)
5/ Wire the FBW accelerator pedal and fuel lift pump.
6/ Start and drive
GSB
_________________
conversions: www.boxeer.com Common rail TDI and NOW PDK transmissions!!
travel pictures:
http://instagram.com/crepeattack/
- the Pastis build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434656&highlight=subaru+diesel |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Greg, in addition to reprograming the ECU to delete some of the sensors, are you also able to tune in more power? Are larger nozzles available for the Common Rail diesel engine? Would I need to use the HPFP "high pressure fuel pump" from the donor vehicle or is their an alternative in the aftermarket? I have seen a lot of stories of HPFP failures and it is not cheap when it happens. I am sorry to ask so many questions. I don't have a lot of experience tinkering on the CR diesels. We have a 2011 JSW, but still under warranty. I am very intrigued with this information. Is their a particular vehicle I should be keeping an eye out for as a donor? Are you modifying the harness or is that for the owner to do? Thank you for posting this information. I have my eye on a syncro that might be a good candidate. mark
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Is it possible to boost the pump output on a CR diesel? I assume a performance chip just alters the timing and injection duration. I'd love to get my hands on one of these and tinker a bit.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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syncrogreg
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| rsxsr wrote: |
| Greg, in addition to reprograming the ECU to delete some of the sensors, are you also able to tune in more power? Are larger nozzles available for the Common Rail diesel engine? Would I need to use the HPFP "high pressure fuel pump" from the donor vehicle or is their an alternative in the aftermarket? I have seen a lot of stories of HPFP failures and it is not cheap when it happens. I am sorry to ask so many questions. I don't have a lot of experience tinkering on the CR diesels. We have a 2011 JSW, but still under warranty. I am very intrigued with this information. Is their a particular vehicle I should be keeping an eye out for as a donor? Are you modifying the harness or is that for the owner to do? Thank you for posting this information. I have my eye on a syncro that might be a good candidate. mark |
Yes tune in more power with stock injectors has been done. I will personally keep the stock pump because the time and money spent to fit an aftermarket pump will be very close to a replacement engine ~3k(IF it fail). I will provide ECU, mapping and wiring work and I highly recommend the Subaru diesel as the best engine solution in the world 
GSB
_________________
conversions: www.boxeer.com Common rail TDI and NOW PDK transmissions!!
travel pictures:
http://instagram.com/crepeattack/
- the Pastis build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434656&highlight=subaru+diesel |
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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 17155
Location: Retired South Florida
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Greg, I honestly thought these Subaru Boxer Diesels were still just a dream in North America. I see the engines at the boxer.com website, but am mistified that I missed the fact they are being sold in North American vehicles as an option. If they are more of an engine import, how is the spare parts availabilty through the North American Dealer network? Do you have turn key kits?
I have an ALH VW TDI mated to a diesel bellhousing and that is the limit of my experience with diesel/vanagon conversions. Interesting information. thank you
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syncrogreg
Samba Member
Joined: November 08, 2009
Posts: 742
Location: USA (Nashville TN)
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| rsxsr wrote: |
Greg, I honestly thought these Subaru Boxer Diesels were still just a dream in North America. I see the engines at the boxer.com website, but am mistified that I missed the fact they are being sold in North American vehicles as an option. If they are more of an engine import, how is the spare parts availabilty through the North American Dealer network? Do you have turn key kits?
I have an ALH VW TDI mated to a diesel bellhousing and that is the limit of my experience with diesel/vanagon conversions. Interesting information. thank you |
Yes it's more an import engine. All Parts are available at boxEEr.com such as constant stock of oil filters, accessory belt, A/C units, Alternators gasket, clutches... and on special order stuff like head gasket, pistons, cranks, O rings ... But don't expect to touch this engine much. It's a new designed engine with chain timing... I did not hear a single failure since the beginning of the Subaru diesel in 08.
Subaru diesel has been sold and is available as a kit.
GSB
_________________
conversions: www.boxeer.com Common rail TDI and NOW PDK transmissions!!
travel pictures:
http://instagram.com/crepeattack/
- the Pastis build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434656&highlight=subaru+diesel |
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dhesq
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2010
Posts: 127
Location: MKE,WI
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| syncrogreg wrote: |
| rsxsr wrote: |
| Greg, in addition to reprograming the ECU to delete some of the sensors, are you also able to tune in more power? Are larger nozzles available for the Common Rail diesel engine? Would I need to use the HPFP "high pressure fuel pump" from the donor vehicle or is their an alternative in the aftermarket? I have seen a lot of stories of HPFP failures and it is not cheap when it happens. I am sorry to ask so many questions. I don't have a lot of experience tinkering on the CR diesels. We have a 2011 JSW, but still under warranty. I am very intrigued with this information. Is their a particular vehicle I should be keeping an eye out for as a donor? Are you modifying the harness or is that for the owner to do? Thank you for posting this information. I have my eye on a syncro that might be a good candidate. mark |
Yes tune in more power with stock injectors has been done. I will personally keep the stock pump because the time and money spent to fit an aftermarket pump will be very close to a replacement engine ~3k(IF it fail). I will provide ECU, mapping and wiring work and I highly recommend the Subaru diesel as the best engine solution in the world
GSB |
Not to be the cynic here, but why is the Sub diesel the "best in the world?" Is it because it's a boxer motor? Is it because it's a Subaru? I don't quite understand why it's the best. That, and the fact that you are totally into the Subaru diesel makes me wonder why you consider it the "best". I mean, if it's a matter of opinion then I think that a TDI is the best based on the fact that the van is kept "VW" or "German" as some put it. Is there really an advantage to the Subaru that makes it that much better that you consider it the "best"?
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| Scott H wrote: |
| sb001 wrote: |
| I have owned my bug since new and you have not, which gives me more right to ownership than you. |
What does this even mean?
More right to ownership ... wtf?  |
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?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 9752
Location: Where?
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| It costs a lot more. Maybe that makes it better. |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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About the only advantage I can see is that it has a t-chain rather than a t-belt, though the boxer setup makes that overly complicated. The TDI gets the nod for having a much simpler inline configuration, but I'd sure like them better if they had a t-chain.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 591
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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i think people are drawn to them for the same reasons that all the other subaru swaps seem to have flourished while the vw gas inline four conversions have not. i belivie the tiico kit is no longer being made and i guess i dont see the point of the 2.0. i think a tuned wbx can be made as strong. the biggest advantage i can think of would be not having to raise the lid, and that may still need to happen if its a choice between that and losing ground clearance. someone with more money then me needs to go to s.a. and start exporting caravelles. i bet with the factory raised rear deck the 1.9 or the boxer diesel would fit with no clearance issues
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Reference Automotive: NW Washingtons Vanagon Specialist. (360)366-6965. referenceautomotive.com |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| About the only advantage I can see is that it has a t-chain rather than a t-belt, though the boxer setup makes that overly complicated. The TDI gets the nod for having a much simpler inline configuration, but I'd sure like them better if they had a t-chain. |
I hear ya there. I hear the latest 2.0 16 valve gasers have chains(Not sure just heard) as well as the inline 5 turbo in the tt rs(again i think). Maybe the diesels will fallow..
_________________
Cars owned: 1979/89 scirraco, 1983 gti, 1984 gti, 1986 gti, 1990 gli, 1989 cabriolet(2.0,16v conversion), 1992 gti, 1982 Westy, 1987 syncro Westy(w/ 1.8t conversion stg1 chip), and finally 2004 r32.... |
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fairweather
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2007
Posts: 663
Location: Aspen, CO
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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The well respected engine providers test their product for at least a year or two and put tens of thousands of miles on the product before releasing it to the public. Making a statement like this without a single running example is comical at best. Obviously you have a large investment and are playing the salesman but it isn't really bolstering your respectability. I would recommend to anyone to wait 2 years after this first transplant before handing over any money unless you want to be the customer who pays for the R$D. It pays to be the cynic when statements like this are made. Maybe you're just trying to be funny with that kind of irresponsible remark but it ain't funny money you're asking for.
What thread is this anyway? Are all threads six degrees away from Subaru?
| syncrogreg wrote: |
I will provide ECU, mapping and wiring work and I highly recommend the Subaru diesel as the best engine solution in the world
GSB |
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D Clymer
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005
Posts: 2978
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dredward wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| About the only advantage I can see is that it has a t-chain rather than a t-belt, though the boxer setup makes that overly complicated. The TDI gets the nod for having a much simpler inline configuration, but I'd sure like them better if they had a t-chain. |
I hear ya there. I hear the latest 2.0 16 valve gasers have chains(Not sure just heard) as well as the inline 5 turbo in the tt rs(again i think). Maybe the diesels will fallow.. |
Yes, in about 2009 vw started using the EA888 version of the 2.0T. It has a timing chain instead of a belt. The new generation I5 in the current VWs also uses a chain. That's how they made that engine compact enough to go transversely in a jetta.
The TDIs are still using a belt, but the change interval is 120k miles. I actually prefer belts.
D |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
| dredward wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| About the only advantage I can see is that it has a t-chain rather than a t-belt, though the boxer setup makes that overly complicated. The TDI gets the nod for having a much simpler inline configuration, but I'd sure like them better if they had a t-chain. |
I hear ya there. I hear the latest 2.0 16 valve gasers have chains(Not sure just heard) as well as the inline 5 turbo in the tt rs(again i think). Maybe the diesels will fallow.. |
Yes, in about 2009 vw started using the EA888 version of the 2.0T. It has a timing chain instead of a belt. The new generation I5 in the current VWs also uses a chain. That's how they made that engine compact enough to go transversely in a jetta.
The TDIs are still using a belt, but the change interval is 120k miles. I actually prefer belts.
D |
While i am not totally against a belt(haveing changed many an this point). A time chain seems like one less thing to deal with though. Please tell me why you prefer a belt?
_________________
Cars owned: 1979/89 scirraco, 1983 gti, 1984 gti, 1986 gti, 1990 gli, 1989 cabriolet(2.0,16v conversion), 1992 gti, 1982 Westy, 1987 syncro Westy(w/ 1.8t conversion stg1 chip), and finally 2004 r32.... |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12115
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Assuming the chain is duplex, it should be a far superior and longer lasting option that any belt. What I like about chains (those that mount to the front of the engine, unlike the VR6) is that you can periodically check the stretch values, and thus have a sense of its wear characteristics. Quite a few MB chains have lasted the full life of the engine, or haven't needed any maintenance prior to achieving 200k. And they can be replaced in around 30 mins, vs the many hours required of most belts. No competition. I've owned half a dozen VW diesels, and two of those have thrown belts; an '81 Dasher and a '96 Passat tdi. I've also serviced plenty of customers who experienced the same. It's clearly a weak link in an otherwise awesome engine platform.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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dredward
Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2007
Posts: 1081
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| Assuming the chain is duplex, it should be a far superior and longer lasting option that any belt. What I like about chains (those that mount to the front of the engine, unlike the VR6) is that you can periodically check the stretch values, and thus have a sense of its wear characteristics. Quite a few MB chains have lasted the full life of the engine, or haven't needed any maintenance prior to achieving 200k. And they can be replaced in around 30 mins, vs the many hours required of most belts. No competition. I've owned half a dozen VW diesels, and two of those have thrown belts; an '81 Dasher and a '96 Passat tdi. I've also serviced plenty of customers who experienced the same. It's clearly a weak link in an otherwise awesome engine platform. |
100% agreed.
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Cars owned: 1979/89 scirraco, 1983 gti, 1984 gti, 1986 gti, 1990 gli, 1989 cabriolet(2.0,16v conversion), 1992 gti, 1982 Westy, 1987 syncro Westy(w/ 1.8t conversion stg1 chip), and finally 2004 r32.... |
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